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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 18 Jan '14 01:33
    Some restaurants require varying standards of dress before they will
    serve their customers. To what extent can (legally) or should (morally)
    a restaurant be allowed to establish a dress code and enforce it by refusing
    serve men or women who don't (or perhaps cannot) comply with it?

    Should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a woman who's wearing
    pants? Or a woman who's wearing a blouse and a skirt rather than a dress?
    Or a woman whose skirt or dress is perceived as 'too short'?
    Or a woman who's not wearing high heels?

    Should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a woman wearing hijab?
    Would this be considered a case of religious discrimination?

    If a restaurant requires men to remove all headgear when dining, should
    that apply to an observant Jew or Sikh whose faith requires headgear?
  2. 18 Jan '14 01:48
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some restaurants require varying standards of dress before they will
    serve their customers. To what extent can (legally) or should (morally)
    a restaurant be allowed to establish a dress code and enforce it by refusing
    serve men or women who don't (or perhaps cannot) comply with it?

    Should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a woman who's wea ...[text shortened]... dgear when dining, should
    that apply to an observant Jew or Sikh whose faith requires headgear?
    WRT the specific examples you give: Legally? Yes. Restaurants should be allowed to have a dress policy with the understanding that boycotting, sign carrying, a complaint to authorities, and a lawsuit may result if there is, for example, a reasonable perception of discrimination on religious grounds.

    Morally? Yes, except if the patron is likely to starve if not fed.
  3. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 02:25
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some restaurants require varying standards of dress before they will
    serve their customers. To what extent can (legally) or should (morally)
    a restaurant be allowed to establish a dress code and enforce it by refusing
    serve men or women who don't (or perhaps cannot) comply with it?

    Should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a woman who's wea ...[text shortened]... dgear when dining, should
    that apply to an observant Jew or Sikh whose faith requires headgear?
    Apart from being required to wear clothes, dress codes are an abomination. They should never be enforced.
  4. 18 Jan '14 02:49
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Apart from being required to wear clothes, dress codes are an abomination. They should never be enforced.
    Why then would you enforce a law outlawing nude dining, if it required diners to sit on a dinner napkin for sanitation purposes?
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 02:57
    Originally posted by JS357
    Why then would you enforce a law outlawing nude dining, if it required diners to sit on a dinner napkin for sanitation purposes?
    I am willing to allow that diners be required to wear clothes. But not for specifying what type of clothes they should be.
  6. 18 Jan '14 06:16
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I am willing to allow that diners be required to wear clothes. But not for specifying what type of clothes they should be.
    So, a tie will do?
  7. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    18 Jan '14 08:06
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Some restaurants require varying standards of dress before they will
    serve their customers. To what extent can (legally) or should (morally)
    a restaurant be allowed to establish a dress code and enforce it by refusing
    serve men or women who don't (or perhaps cannot) comply with it?

    Should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a woman who's wea ...[text shortened]... dgear when dining, should
    that apply to an observant Jew or Sikh whose faith requires headgear?
    Resturants should give preferential treat to hot looking ladies in tight clothes, low cut blouses and short shorts!
  8. 18 Jan '14 10:25
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Apart from being required to wear clothes, dress codes are an abomination. They should never be enforced.
    So if you're in a posh formal dining type restaurant that requires a tie, etc you think it's an abomination to turn away people who want to come in dressed like dumpster-diving bums?
  9. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 13:07
    Originally posted by KilgoreTrout15
    So if you're in a posh formal dining type restaurant that requires a tie, etc you think it's an abomination to turn away people who want to come in dressed like dumpster-diving bums?
    Yes.
  10. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 13:07
    Originally posted by JS357
    So, a tie will do?
  11. 18 Jan '14 13:41
    Originally posted by rwingett
    I am willing to allow that diners be required to wear clothes. But not for specifying what type of clothes they should be.
    What about profanity on those clothes?
  12. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 13:57
    Originally posted by dryhump
    What about profanity on those clothes?
    I think that informal peer pressure to conform to socially accepted dress codes is sufficient. Beyond the base requirement that people be clothed, I don't think any institutionalized enforcement is advisable. Restaurants could post guidelines that they prefer their patrons adhere to, but they should not turn anyone away that falls short of them.
  13. 18 Jan '14 14:01 / 9 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Yes.
    Then I cannot begin to describe your level of suck.

    If your way of thinking ever becomes law, I hope you and your kids enjoy the trashy level of garbage you profess to.

    You are single, right?

    Because I've taken my kids to nice places and seen scumbags dressed like azzholes and wished they were somewhere else.

    What's your excuse for denying a simple sense of propriety in social settings?

    Are you mad because you only wear sweat pants and t-shirts or something?

    "Ah doo whut ahh want!" (Snap fingers and ruin the evening for everyone while strutting around in torn jeans and stained wife-beater shirt at the opera house)

    Self-absorbed dick
  14. 18 Jan '14 21:15 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Apart from being required to wear clothes, dress codes are an abomination. They should never be enforced.
    Dress codes tend to reinforce class distinctions and gender stereotypes.
    If a poor woman's invited to a posh restaurant on a date, should she have
    to worry about how she could afford to buy an elegant evening gown?
    And should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a transgendered
    person (undergoing the transition) because one's clothes are perceived
    as "inappropriate for one's gender"?

    Most people tend to observe unwritten dress codes without them having
    to be enforced formally. If I was very casually dressed, I would feel too
    uncomfortable to enjoy dining being surrounded by formally dressed people.

    June 2013: A new restaurant (Riverside, California) posted a dress code
    requiring women to wear heels: "Ladies: No flat shoes or sandals.
    Must have heels. Exception will be made if injured."

    Personally, I would prefer not to have to bring a doctor's note certifying
    that I have an injury before entering a restaurant. Medical studies have
    shown that wearing high heels too much is bad for the wearers' health.
    (I have sensitive feet, and I already know that I should be careful.)
    Many women denounced this restaurant's dress code as sexist, and so
    the restaurant decided (for business reasons) to alter its dress code.
  15. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    18 Jan '14 21:53
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Dress codes tend to reinforce class distinctions and gender stereotypes.
    If a poor woman's invited to a posh restaurant on a date, should she have
    to worry about how she could afford to buy an elegant evening gown?
    And should a restaurant be allowed to refuse to serve a transgendered
    person (undergoing the transition) because one's clothes are perceive ...[text shortened]... code as sexist, and so
    the restaurant decided (for business reasons) to alter its dress code.
    Your first two paragraphs are essentially what I said in my previous post in this thread.