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  1. 23 Jun '13 12:26
    Ed Snowden left Hong Kong on an Aeroflot flight and is now in Moscow.

    How happy are you Americans about that development?
    Are you nervous? Are you enraged? Or does any of it matter?
  2. Standard member empovsun
    Adepto 'er perfectu
    23 Jun '13 12:30
    it is extremely amusing

    interested to see what happens next
  3. 23 Jun '13 13:01
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Ed Snowden left Hong Kong on an Aeroflot flight and is now in Moscow.

    How happy are you Americans about that development?
    Are you nervous? Are you enraged? Or does any of it matter?
    I couldn't understand why he was in Hong Kong in the first place. Why is he in Moscow? I know it might just be his first stop before reaching his final destination, but Russia? Don't they have a police state and monitor their people there too?

    I find it puzzling why many Americans have a low opinion of Snowden. It is a lot of hypocrisy. Government wants to make sure we don't have any secrets but is so intent on keeping it's secrets it will throw Snowden in prison on the basis that he committed espionage. Espionage?????

    Who was the enemy he sold secrets to? Oh....that is right.....the American people! He didn't sell the information either, he gave it away. I guess it is his benevolence that makes him a traitor.

    Americans who criticize Snowden are just hypocrites who repeat things like "traitor" and "narcissist" like a stupid parrot without thinking it through. Obama and Cheney both want Snowden in prison so both major political parties go along like brain dead sheep. Where is an interview with John Ashcroft when we need him? Not that I like Ashcroft any more than Tommy Chong, but seriously.....where is he when we need him to talk about it?
  4. Standard member sasquatch672
    Don't Like It Leave
    23 Jun '13 16:51
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I couldn't understand why he was in Hong Kong in the first place. Why is he in Moscow? I know it might just be his first stop before reaching his final destination, but Russia? Don't they have a police state and monitor their people there too?

    I find it puzzling why many Americans have a low opinion of Snowden. It is a lot of hypocrisy. Government wan ...[text shortened]... more than Tommy Chong, but seriously.....where is he when we need him to talk about it?
    Peter King, John Boehner et. al certainly reinforced, at least in Snowden's mind, the correctness of his decision to leave the country before making these disclosures. I'm afraid, however, that Snowden has now reinforced the position of those who would accuse him of treason. While the NSA running intelligence operations against any foreign country should come as no surprise, the public disclosure of those operations certainly would not improve our relations. Nor would the disclosure of those operations targeting China.

    I expect that our government would run operations against anybody and everybody. Spying on allies - mmm, that doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but we're mostly all adults. On balance, Snowden has still done a great service to the American people.

    While in the Marine Corps, and while on embassy duty, I interacted with certain elements of our government. The best explanation I heard for how they did what they did came from a Sunday drinking session with this crowd. One guy said, "Call me whatever you want - superpatriot, sociopath, I don't care. The laws of other countries mean nothing to me. I will break any law in any country if it serves American interests. If I get caught, and go to jail, it will be in service to my country. What matters to me are the laws of the United States and the Constitution." I know that's not Bambi romping through the woods with Thumper, but it's real. I'm afraid that we've gone very far outside what my friends at that time would have considered an acceptable boundary.
  5. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    23 Jun '13 17:40
    Originally posted by johnnylongwoody
    Ed Snowden left Hong Kong on an Aeroflot flight and is now in Moscow.

    How happy are you Americans about that development?
    Are you nervous? Are you enraged? Or does any of it matter?
    Don't care
  6. 23 Jun '13 19:47 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    Who was the enemy he sold secrets to? Oh....that is right.....the American people! He didn't sell the information either, he gave it away. I guess it is his benevolence that makes him a traitor.
    He did break the law in releasing classified information to Glenn Greenwald at The Guardian (and thus effectively to the entire world). Everyone agrees that Snowden broke the law, i.e., committed an illegal act. The question is in the prosecutorial discretion.

    He does seem to feed off of the attention. I wonder if the publicity will help him make a few million $ on a book deal.
  7. 23 Jun '13 19:48
    Latest news: Edward Snowden has asked for asylum in Ecuador
    (which previously granted it to Julian Assange). There's speculation
    that Edward Snowden intends to travel from Russia to Ecuador
    (perhaps via Cuba).

    This news should put to an end to the absurd view (held by some
    writers in this forum) that Edward Snowden was a Chinese spy.
  8. 23 Jun '13 20:23 / 3 edits
    The entire AP article given in the Houston Chronicle, with emphasis added.

    WikiLeaks: Snowden going to Ecuador to seek asylum

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Admitted leaker Edward Snowden circled the globe in evasion of U.S. authorities on Sunday, believed to be seeking asylum in Ecuador and leaving the Obama administration scrambling to determine its next step in what became a game of diplomatic cat-and-mouse.

    The former National Security Agency contractor and CIA technician fled Hong Kong and arrived at the Moscow airport, where he planned to spend the night before boarding an Aeroflot flight to Cuba. Ecuador's Foreign Minister Ricardo Patino said his government received an asylum request from Snowden, and the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks said they would help him.

    "He goes to the very countries that have, at best, very tense relationships with the United States and do not value press freedoms whatsoever," said Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., adding that she feared Snowden would trade more U.S. secrets for asylum.

    "This is not going to play out well for the national security interests of the United States," she added.

    The move left the U.S. with limited options as Snowden's itinerary took him on a tour of what many see as anti-American capitals. Ecuador in particular has rejected the United States' previous efforts at cooperation, and has been helping WikiLeaks founder, Julian Assange, avoid prosecution by staying at its embassy in London.

    Snowden helped The Guardian and The Washington Post to disclose U.S. surveillance programs that collects vast amounts of phone records and online data in the name of foreign intelligence, but often sweeping up information on American citizens. Officials have the ability to collect phone and Internet information broadly but need a warrant to examine specific cases where they believe terrorism is involved.

    Snowden has been in hiding for several in Hong Kong, a former British colony with a high degree of autonomy from mainland China. The United States formally sought Snowden's extradition from Hong Kong but was rebuffed; Hong Kong officials said the U.S. request did not fully comply with their laws.

    In a statement, the Justice Department said it would "continue to discuss this matter with Hong Kong and pursue relevant law enforcement cooperation with other countries where Mr. Snowden may be attempting to travel."

    The White House would only say that President Barack Obama had been briefed on the developments by his national security advisers.

    Russia's state ITAR-Tass news agency and Interfax cited an unnamed Aeroflot airline official as saying Snowden was on the plane that landed Sunday afternoon in Moscow. The report said he intended to fly to Cuba on Monday and then on to Caracas, Venezuela.

    U.S. lawmakers scoffed, and warned that all countries helping Snowden to evade trial were hurting their relationship with the U.S.

    "The freedom trail is not exactly China-Russia-Cuba-Venezuela, so I hope we'll chase him to the ends of the earth, bring him to justice and let the Russians know there'll be consequences if they harbor this guy," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C.

    Upon his arrival, Snowden did not leave Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport. One explanation could be that he wasn't allowed; a U.S. official said Snowden's passport had been revoked, and that special permission from Russian authorities would have been needed.

    "It's almost hopeless unless we find some ways to lean on them," said Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y.

    With each suspected flight, efforts to secure Snowden's return to the United States appeared more complicated if not impossible. The United States does not have an extradition treaty with Russia, but does with Cuba, Venezuela and Ecuador. Even with an extradition agreement though, any country could give Snowden a political exemption.

    "As we have seen of late, I think 10 percent of Snowden's issues are now legal, and 90 percent political," said Douglas McNabb, an expert in international extradition and a senior principle at international criminal defense firm McNabb Associates.

    The likelihood that any of these countries would stop Snowden from traveling on to Ecuador seemed unlikely. While diplomatic tensions have thawed in recent years, Cuba and the United States are hardly allies after a half century of distrust.

    Venezuela, too, could prove difficult. Former President Hugo Chavez was a sworn enemy of the United States and his successor, Nicolas Maduro, earlier this year called Obama "grand chief of devils." The two countries do not exchange ambassadors.

    U.S. pressure on Caracas also might be problematic given its energy exports. The U.S. Energy Information Agency reports Venezuela sent the United States 900,000 barrels of crude oil each day in 2012, making it the fourth-largest foreign source of U.S. oil.

    Assange's lawyer, Michael Ratner, said Snowden's options aren't numerous though.

    "You have to have a country that's going to stand up to the United States," Ratner said. "You're not talking about a huge range of countries here."

    That is perhaps why Snowden first stopped in Russia, a nation with complicated relations with Washington. U.S. lawmakers warned those relations would grow more perilous if Moscow does not cooperate.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin is "aiding and abetting Snowden's escape," said Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y.

    "Allies are supposed to treat each other in decent ways, and Putin always seems almost eager to put a finger in the eye of the United States," Schumer said. "That's not how allies should treat one another, and I think it will have serious consequences for the United States-Russia relationship."

    It also wasn't clear Snowden was finished with disclosing highly classified information.

    "I am very worried about what else he has," said Rep. Loretta Sanchez, a California Democrat who sits on the House Homeland Security Committee.

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said she had been told Snowden had perhaps more than 200 sensitive documents.

    Graham spoke to "Fox News Sunday." Schumer was on CNN's "State of the Union." Sanchez appeared on NBC's "Meet the Press." Feinstein was on CBS' "Face the Nation." Ros-Lehtinen and King spoke with CNN. Senor was a guest on ABC's "This Week."

    http://www.chron.com/news/world/article/WikiLeaks-Snowden-going-to-Ecuador-to-seek-asylum-4617034.php
  9. 23 Jun '13 20:28 / 1 edit
    Russia is understandable. After all, he needed to go to a country that was not that friendly, (on the US payroll), who would not turn him in.

    My concern would be, if I was Snowden, will the Russians pressure him to give out more information?

    Waterboarding anyone?
  10. 23 Jun '13 20:30
    Originally posted by whodey
    Russia is understandable. After all, he needed to go to a country that was not that friendly, (on the US payroll), who would not turn him in.

    My concern would be, if I was Snowden, will the Russians pressure him to give out more information?

    Waterboarding anyone?
    Waterboarding not necessary, as Snowden will likely be cooperative with whatever foreign government(s) he chooses to cut a deal(s) with.
  11. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    23 Jun '13 20:31
    Where in the world is Carmen Sandi- I mean Ed Snowden
  12. 23 Jun '13 20:51
    Why should Russia not hasten to obey the US government's demands?

    For one thing, in 2008 Russia fought a brief war against Georgia, which
    some Russians perceive as a war against a proxy of the USA (or Israel).
    It's known that the USA and Israel provided arms and military advisors to
    Georgia. As far as I can recall, some Russian media sources reported that
    some US Special Forces members fought for Georgia against Russia.
    Russian support for Assad in Syria may be construed as retaliation in part
    for the US and Israeli support of Georgia in its conflicts against Russia.

    There has been common Russian nationalist resentment about the USA
    encouraging NATO's maximum expansion, attempting to encircle Russia.
    One Russian told me something like: 'They (Americans) are arrogant enough
    to keep treating us (Russians) as though we already were their conquered
    enemy, but we have not been conquered yet!" Even some Russian critics
    of Putin believe that the USA has behaved wrongly toward Russia.
  13. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    23 Jun '13 21:10
    The Georgia situation was interesting. They got US training for counterinsurgency operations against terrorists and then started mouthing off about how their US trained military was superior. Then Russia reminded them how Slavs handle these things.
  14. 25 Jun '13 06:27 / 1 edit
    He'll eventually get stabbed in Quito, every gringo does if they spend enough time there.

    Quito is the new Bogota, give it a few more years to become public.
  15. 25 Jun '13 13:08
    Originally posted by moon1969
    He did break the law in releasing classified information to Glenn Greenwald at The Guardian (and thus effectively to the entire world). Everyone agrees that Snowden broke the law, i.e., committed an illegal act. The question is in the prosecutorial discretion.

    He does seem to feed off of the attention. I wonder if the publicity will help him make a few million $ on a book deal.
    That classified information is unconstitutional. That makes the classified information illegal. He didn't really break the law if the law was keeping warrantless searches secret so the SCOTUS cannot rule on it.

    Snowden is a hero.