Encouraging Suicide: Homicide?

Originally posted by no1marauder
No he wasn't:

A teenager from Massachusetts could be one step closer to standing trial for allegedly convincing her [b]18-year-old boyfriend to commit suicide.

18 years of age is not considered a "minor" in Massachusetts for almost all purposes:

Section 85P. Except as otherwise specifically provided by law, any person domiciled in the commo ...[text shortened]... ficient age.

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIII/TitleII/Chapter231/Section85P[/b]

OK then. Do you know if there is a relevant Mass. state law concerning adults?

Originally posted by JS357
OK then. Do you know if there is a relevant Mass. state law concerning adults?

I can't find one in their Criminal Code. The defendant here is charged with Manslaughter.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I can't find one in their Criminal Code. The defendant here is charged with Manslaughter.

I note that "Roy had attempted suicide and had been hospitalized before he met Carter, according to court documents."

The medical record from his previous attempt might bear on the question of whether he was properly "deemed of full legal capacity unless legally incapacitated for some reason other than insufficient age." But that's probably a pretty high hurdle.

Originally posted by JS357
I note that "Roy had attempted suicide and had been hospitalized before he met Carter, according to court documents."

The medical record from his previous attempt might bear on the question of whether he was properly "deemed of full legal capacity unless legally incapacitated for some reason other than insufficient age." But that's probably a pretty high hurdle.

I can't see the relevance. The Reckless Endangerment against a Child law specifically defines a child for that crime as: any person under 18 years of age.https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter265/Section13L
so it's not applicable. The Voluntary Manslaughter statute says nothing about legal incapacity of the victim.

Originally posted by no1marauder
I can't see the relevance. The Reckless Endangerment against a Child law specifically defines a child for that crime as: any person under 18 years of age.https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartIV/TitleI/Chapter265/Section13L
so it's not applicable. The Voluntary Manslaughter statute says nothing about legal incapacity of the victim.

I would want to bring "legally incapacitated for some reason" under the umbrella of this Reckless Endangerment law.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Or is there something in this case you find particularly egregious?

From your link:

She allegedly calmed his fears; helped him research suicide methods; cajoled him to go through with his plans when he got cold feet and lied to police, family and friends in order to enable the 18-year-old’s final act.

“When are you doing it?” she asked repeatedly in text messages. “You better not be bullsh—ing me and saying you gonna do this and then purposely get caught.”

“You always say you’re gonna do it, but you never do,” Carter complained in one of the more than 1,000 texts the two teens shared. She was tired of his “excuses,” she said several times. “I just want to make sure tonight is the real thing.”

When, at the last minute, Roy said he was afraid and didn’t want to abandon his family, Carter told him to climb back into his exhaust-filled truck.

“Get back in,” she told him.

He did — and he died as a result.

Police found Roy the next morning, dead inside his pickup in a Kmart parking lot. Next to his lifeless body lay his cellphone, on which his girlfriend had listened to him die.

That's egregious, and goes beyond just acquiescence. It would be one thing if he'd been suffering from a painful/terminal illness from which there was no hope of relief and she merely acquiesced, but depression doesn't fall into that category as there are medicines and therapy for it. But rather than encouraging him to seek help or intervening to save his life while listening to him die, she badgered him into it. In fact her intervention went the other direction. By lying to police and others she cut him off from help he needed. That's malicious IMO, and she shouldn't get a pass for it.

How about the fact that the girl charged was only 17 when her boyfriend committed suicide? Should that make her more, less or have no effect on her culpability?

Less culpable IMO.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
Originally posted by no1marauder
[b]Or is there something in this case you find particularly egregious?

From your link:

[i]She allegedly calmed his fears; helped him research suicide methods; cajoled him to go through with his plans when he got cold feet and lied to police, family and friends in order to enable the 18-year-old’s fi ...[text shortened]... Should that make her more, less or have no effect on her culpability?[/b]

Less culpable IMO.[/b]

Was she in fact 17 ATT?

Originally posted by whodey
Being left wingers I thought you supported things like euthanasia and suicide and abortion and pretty much anything to reduce our carbon footprints and protect our precious natural resources

Shut up you moron.

But, to the case in hand: something's not right.
I don't think a prison sentence is in order, but it just doesn't feel sound.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
Originally posted by no1marauder
[b]Or is there something in this case you find particularly egregious?

From your link:

[i]She allegedly calmed his fears; helped him research suicide methods; cajoled him to go through with his plans when he got cold feet and lied to police, family and friends in order to enable the 18-year-old’s fi ...[text shortened]... Should that make her more, less or have no effect on her culpability?[/b]

Less culpable IMO.[/b]

Judging from the story she seems like an awful person, but then again, so do many of this forum's contributors.

Originally posted by Sleepyguy
Originally posted by no1marauder
[b]Or is there something in this case you find particularly egregious?

From your link:

[i]She allegedly calmed his fears; helped him research suicide methods; cajoled him to go through with his plans when he got cold feet and lied to police, family and friends in order to enable the 18-year-old’s fi ...[text shortened]... Should that make her more, less or have no effect on her culpability?[/b]

Less culpable IMO.[/b]

He hadn't actually seen her in over a year and her "badgering" was contained in text messages which he was free to ignore or even delete without reading.

It feels like she did something wrong yet I can't see how it amounts to Manslaughter. His death was caused by his own actions not hers.

EDIT: And her charge seems inappropriate anyway. In Massachusetts Involuntary Manslaughter is:

1) An unlawful killing that was unintentionally caused as the result of the defendants' wanton or reckless conduct;

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/massachusetts-law/massachusetts-involuntary-manslaughter-and-motor-vehicle-homicid.html

If it is the State's theory that her conduct actually caused the boyfriend's death then I do not see how under the facts alleged that it could be "unintentional"; the State's theory seems to necessitate a Murder charge.

Originally posted by no1marauder
He hadn't actually seen her in over a year and her "badgering" was contained in text messages which he was free to ignore or even delete without reading.

It feels like she did something wrong yet I can't see how it amounts to Manslaughter. His death was caused by his own actions not hers.

EDIT: And her charge seems inappropriate anyway. In Massachu ...[text shortened]... leged that it could be "unintentional"; the State's theory seems to necessitate a Murder charge.

Hmm. And a murder charge is clearly overkill, so to speak. It's a tough one. Her actions were so harmful, dishonest, disturbing and creepy I don't want her left unpunished, but she didn't kill the guy. The choice was his. Could the case be made that she should have known that his choice was irrational and that her appropriate response was to intervene?

If a person comes upon someone bleeding to death on the sidewalk, does nothing to help, and also actively hides the fact from others who might help, wouldn't that go beyond mere negligence even if the bleeding individual wanted to die? What's the charge for that? At the very least they should nail her for lying to the police.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
I think this is a slippery slope. What if a depressed person watches The Sound of Music and it's the final straw, are the von Trapps now guilty of reckless endangerment?

Another one of your stupid nonsensical analogies.
Watching The Sound Of Music isn't anything like what the girl did, how could you think they are remotely comparable?.

Originally posted by FishHead111
Another one of your stupid nonsensical analogies.
Watching The Sound Of Music isn't anything like what the girl did, how could you think they are remotely comparable?.

I agree that watching The Sound of Music is much worse, but I like to use hyperboles as a rhetorical device.