Originally posted by knapperjaWith modern medicine, there's no reason to suffer a painful death. Advances in pain management makes most deaths fairly painless.
I can't see why someone else should have the right to tell me I need to suffer a painful death. I don't understand how anybody thinks they know better than the person suffering.
Originally posted by ColettiWould you rather die early knowing that you will die soon or get to the point where you are so 'doped' up that you cannot recognise people due to pain medication.
With modern medicine, there's no reason to suffer a painful death. Advances in pain management makes most deaths fairly painless.
Where it's quite clear that consent has been given, yes people should be allowed to get someone else to kill them. After all, they'd do it themselves if they could, and we wouldn't see that as a crime.
The problems come when:
a) the patient is unconscious or is not 'of sound mind', which means you don't really know what they want, unless they've specified beforehand;
b) the patient is coerced by relatives/doctors into saying they want to die, when in reality they don't.
In practice, euthanasia happens anyway by the following mechanism - the patient asks the doctor to 'take away the pain', but to do this the doctor eventually has to give them a lethal dose of painkillers. This leads to more ethical problems: it's not the least traumatic way of killing someone (certainly for relatives it wouldn't be); it's still physically harming the patient, even though the patient has requested it; and because of the roundabout way in which it's done, the patient may not realise that asking for the pain to be taken away means that the doctor will kill them.
Originally posted by ColettiThe aspect of dignity shouldn’t be ignored, as well as the limitations of pain medication for pain relief (not complete relief) and the cognitive effects of the higher doses of the pain meds. Another point is In wealthier countries, access to these drugs is relatively easy, but not in the developing world.
With modern medicine, there's no reason to suffer a painful death. Advances in pain management makes most deaths fairly painless.
Most people have known someone or known of someone with terminal cancer, and at some point, it becomes too miserable to want to live. I don't see why someone else gets to decide what is best for me, provided I am of sound mind. I am the one suffering, not the bureaucrat making the decision for me. Let me decide about my own suffering when it is too much for me.
Originally posted by knapperjaIf anyone wants to kill themselves, and they are not judged to be lacking in the 'reality' department...I have no problems what so ever with them doing it.
The aspect of dignity shouldn’t be ignored, as well as the limitations of pain medication for pain relief (not complete relief) and the cognitive effects of the higher doses of the pain meds. Another point is In wealthier countries, access to these drugs is relatively easy, but not in the developing world.
Most people have known someone or known of som ...[text shortened]... making the decision for me. Let me decide about my own suffering when it is too much for me.
If people are unable to make the decisions for themselves (say they're in a coma), then I advocate the Dutch system: Family, Doctor and Shrink...if they're all agreed...pull the plug.
I have no problems with people committing suicide either.
I'll even go one step further...I would have no problem helping certain people achieve their self-destructive goals...if they would have them.
Oh...if only they'd have them...
A litle note on the meaning of words:
Euthanasia is when you somehow "actively" facilitate someones death (with their consent, in order to end their suffering).
In the case of (assisted)suicide the patient them self acts as the active part.
Though I feel we have a common understanding of what we speak of the destinction is important.
Many legal systems do still consider suicide a crime but does not prosecute those who fail in the attempt. Whereas every legal system prosecute those who kill. For that reason its normally easyer to alow assisted suicide than "real" Euthanasia. As far as I'm avare only the Netherlands have sucesfully passed a law on Euthanasia.
Originally posted by knapperjaI happen to work with terminally ill patients and live in the "developed" world. There are several kinds of pain related to dying. Clearly cancer has potential to cause a good deal of pain. The medications they have today are absolutely incredible and it has been my experience that properly managed, they can be relatively comfortable and peaceful. The other pain is emotional. Might be fear, regrets, or what they sometimes call "terminal restlessness." This can be treated as well and often involves the family being present to offer reassurance. I would never want someone to suffer needlessly. Having said that, there is no cure for the feelings around death. I have oftten heard patients say "just put me out of it" and it puts the family in an incredible bind. I'm not sure euthanasia is the best option though I would never ever disparage anyone for thinking about it or wanting to talk about it. Usually (99% of the time for me) when it is talked about, they really don't want to act on it, just want someone to listen to their frustrations and fears. When these are not listened to it there is not a pain medication to touch this pain.
The aspect of dignity shouldn’t be ignored, as well as the limitations of pain medication for pain relief (not complete relief) and the cognitive effects of the higher doses of the pain meds. Another point is In wealthier countries, access to these drugs is relatively easy, but not in the developing world.
Most people have known someone or known of som ...[text shortened]... making the decision for me. Let me decide about my own suffering when it is too much for me.
If the goal is to end suffering, then there is better ways then euthanasia. And it is curious that many people who support euthanasia are against capital punishment. Similar to the fact that most people who are against abortion or for capital punishment.
Suicide it another issue. But it is still an unjustified killing and is the ultimate selfish act a person can perform. The person being killed has not done anything to sentence himself with death. I sure there's the very rare occasion when the person is punishing himself for taking another persons life, but how often could that be?
Well controlled pain can leave the patient fairly lucid for the most part.
A better question might be: are doctors obligated to preserve life under all conditions. Is there a point where extreme measures are not called for. How about the 98 year-old in a coma, who's heart keeps failing. He's not suffering himself. But the doctors know he will not recover, and may never awaken before he dies.
I think at most, doctors may refrain from taken some measures if that has been agreed upon by the patient and family. But for a doctor to actively aid a suicide, or euthanize a person, would be murder.
How does one argue for euthanasia and against capital punishment?
Originally posted by ColettiEuthenasia is one's own choice.
If the goal is to end suffering, then there is better ways then euthanasia. And it is curious that many people who support euthanasia are against capital punishment. Similar to the fact that most people who are against abortion or for capital punishment.
Suicide it another issue. But it is still an unjustified killing and is the ultimate selfish act a ...[text shortened]... erson, would be murder.
How does one argue for euthanasia and against capital punishment?
Why would you take the choice away from someone?
It's like abortion, you don't have to do it. But if someone else wants to, I don't see any problem with them making that choice.
There is no similarity between people being killed by the State and somebody wanting to end one's own life.