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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriberkmax87
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    16 Nov '18 06:571 edit
    On whodeys conspiracy theories post it seems like 24% of Americans are birthers or almost one in four people.

    My understanding about Obama meeting the criteria seemed settled. But in looking into it a bit deeper, especially within the context of Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, my understanding of the conditions required of an eligible candidate for president seem less certain now than before.

    So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that to be eligible for president in the 21st century, you have to be a 'natural born citizen'. Which is fine and dandy except for the fact that the constitution does not explicitly describe what a 'natural born citizen' is.

    Now also correct me if i am wrong, but it seems that to be a natural born citizen, it is less about your place of birth, but more the citizenship of your parents at the time of your birth. On the other hand just because you are born on American soil, while making you a citizen by birth is not the same as being a 'natural born citizen'.

    If this is all true, then where Obama was born is meaningless, because by the same logic Ted Cruz, born in Canada is considered natural born because of his mother's citizenship, which surely covers Obama's circumstances, which if it did, then where Obama was born had nothing to do with it.

    Except that to be considered a 'natural born citizen', both your parents have to be US citizens at the time of your birth.....

    No1 and sh76 can you help unpack all of this please?
  2. Subscribermoonbus
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    16 Nov '18 10:00
    @kmax87 said
    On whodeys conspiracy theories post it seems like 24% of Americans are birthers or almost one in four people.

    My understanding about Obama meeting the criteria seemed settled. But in looking into it a bit deeper, especially within the context of Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, my understanding of the conditions required of an eligible candidate for president seem less certain now ...[text shortened]... e US citizens at the time of your birth.....

    No1 and sh76 can you help unpack all of this please?
    See https://www.constitution.org/abus/pres_elig.htm

    "Natural-born citizen" means a citizen from birth, not naturalised later (as, for example, Arnold Schwarzenegger was). Thus, any person born on U.S. soil, regardless what nationality his parents were, or a person born of U.S. citizens not on U.S. soil (such as children of diplomatic or military personnel stationed abroad), is eligible to hold high office. Arnold was not eligible, since he was not born a U.S. citizen.
  3. Subscriberno1marauder
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    16 Nov '18 11:09
    @kmax87 said
    On whodeys conspiracy theories post it seems like 24% of Americans are birthers or almost one in four people.

    My understanding about Obama meeting the criteria seemed settled. But in looking into it a bit deeper, especially within the context of Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz, my understanding of the conditions required of an eligible candidate for president seem less certain now ...[text shortened]... e US citizens at the time of your birth.....

    No1 and sh76 can you help unpack all of this please?
    sh76 and I jousted on this issue back during the 2016 campaign: https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/why-can-ted-cruz-become-president.166517 Pages 3 and 4.
  4. Subscriberkmax87
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    17 Nov '18 12:172 edits
    @no1marauder said
    sh76 and I jousted on this issue back during the 2016 campaign: https://www.redhotpawn.com/forum/debates/why-can-ted-cruz-become-president.166517 Pages 3 and 4.
    Thanks for digging that up, and I've read the whole thread through a couple of times, but I don't know if I understand it any better.

    It seems you are saying, 'natural born citizen' requires the father of said child to be a US citizen.
    sh76 seems to be saying' that's an anachronistic view, times have changed, a US mother provides the same cover.
    And Suzianne seems to be saying, to hell with all your moribund original intent speculation, US code Law covers all possibilities and if someone meets the criteria for being a citizen at birth, then they also are considered to be 'natural born citizens' and are therefore eligible to be President.

    So here is my question. If what Suzianne claims is true, and no-one who fits those US Code criteria has ever been denied eligibility to run for the highest office, then why did birtherism take on such a hold?

    Why was it so important for Obama to prove he was born on US soil if his mother by virtue of her US citizenship automatically gave birth to a 'natural born citizen' eligible to be President one day?

    What am I missing?
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    17 Nov '18 12:55
    @kmax87 said
    Thanks for digging that up, and I've read the whole thread through a couple of times, but I don't know if I understand it any better.

    It seems you are saying, 'natural born citizen' requires the father of said child to be a US citizen.
    sh76 seems to be saying' that's an anachronistic view, times have changed, a US mother provides the same cover.
    And Suzianne seems to be ...[text shortened]... cally gave birth to a 'natural born citizen' eligible to be President one day?

    What am I missing?
    You'd have to ask a Birther (which I am not).
  6. Standard membershavixmir
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    17 Nov '18 16:40
    What if the US annexes, say, Ireland and plants another star on its flag.

    Can Bono (born on American soil) then be eligible to become president?
  7. Subscriberkmax87
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    17 Nov '18 21:52
    @shavixmir said
    What if the US annexes, say, Ireland and plants another star on its flag.

    Can Bono (born on American soil) then be eligible to become president?
    They would play U2's 'One' at his inauguration.

    .....we are One, but we're not the same, we have to carry each other, carry each other.....
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