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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 29 Sep '15 12:26 / 1 edit
    Now that Europe is being over run with millions of Muslim immigrants, mostly by males aged 18-30, what will be the effect?

    Now that some countries are now erecting borders and Greece continues to falter, will the EU break up? For that matter, will NATO break up? Will European countries begin to divert money to building an army to protect themselves verses relying on the US to protect them?
  2. 29 Sep '15 13:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    Now that Europe is being over run with millions of Muslim immigrants, mostly by males aged 18-30, what will be the effect?

    Now that some countries are now erecting borders and Greece continues to falter, will the EU break up? For that matter, will NATO break up? Will European countries begin to divert money to building an army to protect themselves verses relying on the US to protect them?
    Why would the EU and/or NATO "break up" because of a few refugees entering the EU seeking asylum?

    Every country in Europe except for a few city-states already has an army.
  3. 29 Sep '15 13:45
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Why would the EU and/or NATO "break up" because of a few refugees entering the EU seeking asylum?

    Every country in Europe except for a few city-states already has an army.
    The idea about the EU I thought was open borders.

    How can there be if they erect fences like the evil conservatives want to do along the Mexican border in the US?

    Additionally, what do you call "a few" immigrants? By all accounts, it is in the millions and gets worse every day.
  4. 29 Sep '15 13:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    The idea about the EU I thought was open borders.

    How can there be if they erect fences like the evil conservatives want to do along the Mexican border in the US?

    Additionally, what do you call "a few" immigrants? By all accounts, it is in the millions and gets worse every day.
    The borders are open in the Schengen area. Not to countries outside the area.

    The EU has a population of over 500 million.
  5. 29 Sep '15 14:59
    Originally posted by whodey
    Now that Europe is being over run with millions of Muslim immigrants, mostly by males aged 18-30, what will be the effect?

    Now that some countries are now erecting borders and Greece continues to falter, will the EU break up? For that matter, will NATO break up? Will European countries begin to divert money to building an army to protect themselves verses relying on the US to protect them?
    pffff, you're hilarious.
  6. 29 Sep '15 15:35
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The borders are open in the Schengen area. Not to countries outside the area.

    The EU has a population of over 500 million.
    The US has a population of about 3/4 of that. We travel from State to State without a single border checkpoint, guard or highway gate. Does that exist in the EU? Is a passport needed to move from country to county?
  7. 29 Sep '15 15:52
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The US has a population of about 3/4 of that. We travel from State to State without a single border checkpoint, guard or highway gate. Does that exist in the EU? Is a passport needed to move from country to county?
    The Schengen area is not the same as the EU although most EU countries and a few non-EU countries have signed up. Yes, one can travel from one country to the other in the Schengen area without requiring a passport (under normal circumstances) - however many (most?) EU members have mandatory ID laws regardless of whether they are traveling abroad. If you are just driving across the border from say, Germany to France, there is just a sign saying you entered France, but no border checks (normally).
  8. 29 Sep '15 16:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The Schengen area is not the same as the EU although most EU countries and a few non-EU countries have signed up. Yes, one can travel from one country to the other in the Schengen area without requiring a passport (under normal circumstances) - however many (most?) EU members have mandatory ID laws regardless of whether they are traveling abroad. If you ...[text shortened]... many to France, there is just a sign saying you entered France, but no border checks (normally).
    A few EU countries are, as Kazet says, outside Schengen - Britain is one, since our government decided it wanted to maintain control over its borders. This means that Ireland, which has long had open borders with Britain, also remains outside Schengen as they could not have joined Schengen without accepting border controls with the UK.

    Switzerland, Norway and Iceland are in Schengen despite not being in the EU, so at present you can travel from Bergen or Lisbon at the western edge of the continent to Narva, Estonia on the Russian border without showing a passport at a frontier. The other day I flew from Amsterdam to Stockholm showing only a boarding pass - a novel experience, since I have to show a passport when travelling abroad from my own country!
  9. 29 Sep '15 17:18
    Originally posted by normbenign
    The US has a population of about 3/4 of that. We travel from State to State without a single border checkpoint, guard or highway gate. Does that exist in the EU? Is a passport needed to move from country to county?
    Switzerland is guarded like a bank.......cuz it is a bank.
  10. 29 Sep '15 17:23
    Originally posted by whodey
    Switzerland is guarded like a bank.......cuz it is a bank.
    Switzerland has completely open borders with all of its neighbours. In addition it has subscribed to the EU's freedom of movement regulations, which means that EU citizens are free to live and work in Switzerland.
  11. 29 Sep '15 17:36
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Switzerland has completely open borders with all of its neighbours. In addition it has subscribed to the EU's freedom of movement regulations, which means that EU citizens are free to live and work in Switzerland.
    I suspect that geographical and geological restrictions on travel are more than the political ones. Mountain ranges and rivers tend to slow or restrict travel.

    Then when all is said and done, the nations involved agreed to whatever the rules are. Anyone who doesn't like it can choose to dis-enroll, I suppose.

    Several of the nations mentioned such as Iceland, are Islands without borders to any other of the nations of the EU.
  12. 29 Sep '15 17:41
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Switzerland has completely open borders with all of its neighbours. In addition it has subscribed to the EU's freedom of movement regulations, which means that EU citizens are free to live and work in Switzerland.
    Switzerland remained free, even when Hitler had conquered the rest of Europe. It's topography provides a great defense.
  13. 29 Sep '15 18:01
    Originally posted by normbenign
    I suspect that geographical and geological restrictions on travel are more than the political ones. Mountain ranges and rivers tend to slow or restrict travel.

    Then when all is said and done, the nations involved agreed to whatever the rules are. Anyone who doesn't like it can choose to dis-enroll, I suppose.

    Several of the nations mentioned such as Iceland, are Islands without borders to any other of the nations of the EU.
    How do you think people are traveling to Switzerland, by cart and oxen?
  14. 29 Sep '15 18:09
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Switzerland has completely open borders with all of its neighbours. In addition it has subscribed to the EU's freedom of movement regulations, which means that EU citizens are free to live and work in Switzerland.
    Open borders? LOL.

    They are surrounded by the Alps. When I traveled the area, it was the only country where they checked my passport?

    Open borders? Really?

    Switzerland guards its borders, that is, the tunnels through the Alps which is not much work. They also have their citizens armed to the teeth and have the most strict immigration laws that I know of in Europe. To top it all off, they have everyones money.

    Switzerland is a right winged utopia. Once you cross the border, you notice an upgrade in living conditions.
  15. 29 Sep '15 18:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    Open borders? LOL.

    They are surrounded by the Alps. When I traveled the area, it was the only country where they checked my passport?

    Open borders? Really?

    Switzerland guards its borders, that is, the tunnels through the Alps which is not much work. They also have their citizens armed to the teeth and have the most strict immigration laws that I ...[text shortened]... s a right winged utopia. Once you cross the border, you notice an upgrade in living conditions.
    Switzerland joined the Schengen area in 2008. LOL!