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  1. 07 Sep '14 21:06 / 1 edit
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/07/israel-palestinian-unity-land-grab

    "For Israel, the beginning of wisdom is to admit its mistakes.
    Israel should embrace Palestinian unity for its own security.
    A further land grab will only inflame tensions."
    --Avi Shlaim (an Israeli Jewish historian)

    "Israel has a habit of justifying its actions in the occupied Palestinian territories,
    however illegal and indecent, in the name of security. But denying any
    security to the other side only perpetuates the conflict.
    ...
    What did Israel gain by unleashing the deadly firepower of the IDF against
    the caged population of this tiny coastal enclave (Gaza)? Virtually nothing.
    *Israel had in fact provoked this crisis* by its violent crackdown against Hamas
    activists on the West Bank following the murder of three teenagers. Hamas
    rocket attacks--the ostensible reason for the war--were a response to Israel's
    aggressive security measures.
    ...
    So what should Israel do?...First of all, *Israel should end its relentless campaign
    to demonise the people of Gaza.*...The assertion of (IDF) Major General
    Giora Eiland that there is no such thing as 'innocent civlians' in Gaza is simply absurd.
    ...
    Second, it is time to remove from Hamas the terrorist tag....it is also a legitimate
    political actor, having won a fair and free election in 2006. Netanyahu claims
    that Hamas is indistinguishable from the murderous fanatics who make up ISIS.
    *Hamas, however, is not a messianic jihadist movement but a local organisation
    with a pragmatic political leadership and limited aims.*
    ...
    One of Netanyahu's undeclared war aims was to disrupt this (Palestinian)
    unity government so Israel could continue to divide and rule, but the government
    survived the baptism of fire.
    ...
    Israel's policy toward Gaza since the unilateral disengagement in 2005 has
    consisted of *the systematic violations of international humanitarian law,
    duplicitous diplomacy, and large doses of brute military force*. With chilling
    cynicism, Israeli generals speak of their periodic incursions into Gaza as
    'mowing the lawn'. ... It (the 'international community' ) must begin to
    hold Israel to account in a way that it has so far shamefully failed to."
    --Avi Shlaim (7 September 2014)

    Every person of conscience should 'hold Israel to account' (to quote Avi Shlaim)
    for its continuing oppression of the Palestinians. And every person of conscience
    should develop enough moral courage to withstand the predictable outrage
    (including instant accusations of 'hating all Jews' ) from supporters of Israel.
  2. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Sep '14 07:47
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/07/israel-palestinian-unity-land-grab

    "For Israel, the beginning of wisdom is to admit its mistakes.
    Israel should embrace Palestinian unity for its own security.
    A further land grab will only inflame tensions."
    --Avi Shlaim (an Israeli Jewish historian)

    "Israel has a habit of justifying its actio ...[text shortened]... ctable outrage
    (including instant accusations of 'hating all Jews' ) from supporters of Israel.
    Everyone makes mistakes. There is no need for Israel to admit mistakes, just learn from them, like they can not trust the so-called Palestinians to keep their word.
  3. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    08 Sep '14 11:32
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Everyone makes mistakes. There is no need for Israel to admit mistakes, just learn from them, like they can not trust the so-called Palestinians to keep their word.
    Racism or, to use Edward Said's term, "orientalism."
    “No one today is purely one thing. Labels like Indian, or woman, or Muslim, or American are not more than starting-points, which if followed into actual experience for only a moment are quickly left behind. Imperialism consolidated the mixture of cultures and identities on a global scale. But its worst and most paradoxical gift was to allow people to believe that they were only, mainly, exclusively, white, or Black, or Western, or Oriental. Yet just as human beings make their own history, they also make their cultures and ethnic identities. No one can deny the persisting continuities of long traditions, sustained habitations, national languages, and cultural geographies, but there seems no reason except fear and prejudice to keep insisting on their separation and distinctiveness, as if that was all human life was about. Survival in fact is about the connections between things; in Eliot’s phrase, reality cannot be deprived of the “other echoes [that] inhabit the garden.” It is more rewarding - and more difficult - to think concretely and sympathetically, contrapuntally, about others than only about “us.” But this also means not trying to rule others, not trying to classify them or put them in hierarchies, above all, not constantly reiterating how “our” culture or country is number one (or not number one, for that matter).”
    ― Edward W. Said, Culture and Imperialism
    “... the connection between imperial politics and culture is astonishingly direct. American attitudes to American "greatness", to hierarchies of race, to the perils of "other" revolutions (the American revolution being considered unique and somehow unrepeatable anywhere else in the world) have remained constant, have dictated, have obscured, the realities of empire, while apologists for overseas American interests have insisted on American innocence, doing good, fighting for freedom.”
    ― Edward W. Said
  4. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    08 Sep '14 15:41
    Originally posted by finnegan
    Racism or, to use Edward Said's term, "orientalism."
    “No one today is purely one thing. Labels like Indian, or woman, or Muslim, or American are not more than starting-points, which if followed into actual experience for only a moment are quickly left behind. Imperialism consolidated the mixture of cultures and identities on a global scale. But its w ...[text shortened]... have insisted on American innocence, doing good, fighting for freedom.”
    ― Edward W. Said
    Edward W. Said, a PLO spokesman and terrorist sympathizer for the so-called Palestinian cause in the West, was certainly a Jew hater and a racist.
  5. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    08 Sep '14 19:51
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    Edward W. Said, a PLO spokesman and terrorist sympathizer for the so-called Palestinian cause in the West, was certainly a Jew hater and a racist.
    Drawing from his family experiences as Palestinian Christians in the Middle East around the time Israel was established in 1948, Said argued for the establishment of a Palestinian state. Further, he was an advocate for equal political and human rights for Palestinians in Israel, and urged the U.S. to pressure Israel to grant and respect these rights. Said was described by journalist Robert Fisk as the Palestinian people's "most powerful political voice".[3] Nevertheless, he also criticized the Arab and Muslim regimes who acted against the interests of their peoples.
    Curious how the ethnic cleansing of Christian Palestinians to make room for an exclusively Jewish state is endorsed by American fundamentalist Christians. As close to disappearing up their fundament as you can get.
  6. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Sep '14 03:01
    Originally posted by finnegan
    [quote]Drawing from his family experiences as [b]Palestinian Christians in the Middle East around the time Israel was established in 1948, Said argued for the establishment of a Palestinian state. Further, he was an advocate for equal political and human rights for Palestinians in Israel, and urged the U.S. to pressure Israel to grant and respect ...[text shortened]... American fundamentalist Christians. As close to disappearing up their fundament as you can get.[/b]
    Edward Said has about as much credibility as Ward LeRoy Churchill.

    Ward LeRoy Churchill (born October 2, 1947) is an American author and political activist. He was a professor of ethnic studies at the University of Colorado Boulder from 1990 to 2007. The primary focus of his work is on the historical treatment of political dissenters and Native Americans by the United States government. His work features controversial and provocative views, written in a direct, often confrontational style.

    In January 2005, Churchill's work attracted publicity because of the widespread circulation of a 2001 essay, "On the Justice of Roosting Chickens". In the essay, he claimed that the September 11 attacks were a natural and unavoidable consequence of what he views as unlawful US policy, and he referred to the "technocratic corps" working in the World Trade Center as "little Eichmanns."

    In March 2005 the University of Colorado began investigating allegations that Churchill had engaged in research misconduct; it reported in June 2006 that he had done so. Churchill was fired on July 24, 2007, leading to a claim by some scholars that he was fired because of the "Little Eichmanns" comment.

    In 1978, Churchill began working at the University of Colorado Boulder as an affirmative action officer in the university administration. He also lectured on American Indian issues in the ethnic studies program. In 1990, the University of Colorado hired him as an associate professor, although he did not possess the academic doctorate usually required for the position. The following year he was granted tenure in the Communications department, without the usual six-year probationary period, after having been declined by the Sociology and Political Science departments.

    Documents in Churchill's university personnel file show that he was granted tenure in a "special opportunity position." In 1994, then CU-Boulder Chancellor James Corbridge refused to take action on allegations that Churchill was fraudulently claiming to be an Indian, saying "it has always been university policy that a person's race or ethnicity is self-proving."

    In 1996, Churchill moved to the new Ethnic Studies Department of the University of Colorado. In 1997, he was promoted to full professor. He was selected as chairman of the department in June 2002.

    In January 2005, during the controversy over his 9/11 remarks, Churchill resigned as chairman of the ethnic studies department at the University of Colorado — his term as chair was scheduled to expire in June of that year. On May 16, 2006, the Investigative Committee of the Standing Committee on Research Misconduct at the University of Colorado concluded that Churchill had committed multiple counts of academic misconduct, specifically plagiarism, fabrication, and falsification. On July 24, 2007, Churchill was fired for academic misconduct in an eight to one vote by the University of Colorado's Board of Regents.

    In a 1987 profile on Churchill, the Denver Post reported that he was drafted, went to paratrooper school, then volunteered for Vietnam, where he served a 10-month tour as Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol (LRRP), one of a six-man team sent out to track down the enemy. The Post article also reported that Churchill was politically radicalized as a result of his experiences in Vietnam. Churchill told the Post that he had spent some time at the Chicago office of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS) in the late 1960s, and briefly taught members of the Weather Underground how to build bombs and fire weapons.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill
  7. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    09 Sep '14 09:28
    a prominent Foreign Office minister in Britain, Sayeeda Warsi, has resigned, saying Britain’s policy on the crisis in Gaza is, quote, "morally indefensible." In an interview with The Huffington Post, Warsi criticized Britain for pressuring Palestinian leadership not to seek justice at the International Criminal Court. On Monday, Human Rights Watch urged Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas to seek ICC jurisdiction over crimes committed on and from Palestinian territory. The group detailed multiple examples of Israeli soldiers shooting and killing fleeing civilians in Gaza.
  8. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    09 Sep '14 09:34
    Prime Minister Netanyahu, he basically operates under two constraints: the international constraint—namely, there are limits to the kinds of death and destruction he can inflict on Gaza—and then there’s the domestic constraint, which is Israeli society doesn’t tolerate a large number of combatant deaths.

    He launched the ground invasion for reasons which—no point in going into now—and inflicted massive death and destruction on Gaza, where the main enabler was, of course, President Obama. Each day he came out, he or one of his spokespersons, and said, "Israel has the right to defend itself." Each time he said that, it was the green light to Israel that it can continue with its terror bombing of Gaza. That went on for day after day after day, schools, mosques, hospitals targeted. But then you reached a limit. The limit was when Israel started to target the U.N. shelters—targeted one shelter, there was outrage; targeted a second shelter, there was outrage. And now the pressure began to build up in the United Nations. This is a United Nations—these are U.N. shelters. And the pressure began to build up. It reached a boiling point with the third shelter. And then Ban Ki-moon, the comatose secretary-general of the United Nations and a U.S. puppet, even he was finally forced to say something, saying these are criminal acts. Obama was now cornered. He was looking ridiculous in the world. It was a scandal. Even the U.N. secretary-general, Ban Ki-moon, was now calling it a criminal act. So finally Obama, the State Department said "unacceptable," "deplorable." And frankly, it’s exactly what happened in 1999 in Timor: The limits had been reached, Clinton said to the Indonesian army, "Time to end the massacre." And exactly happened now: Obama signaled to Netanyahu the terror bombing has to stop. So, Obama—excuse me, Netanyahu had reached the limit of international tolerance, which basically means the United States.

    And then there was the domestic issue. Israel had launched a ground invasion ostensibly to stop the so-called rocket attacks, but then it turned into something different: the tunnels. Now, the tunnels had nothing to do with Israel. That’s totally ridiculous. Israel claims there were 12 tunnels that had passed through its border. There were many more tunnels between Gaza and Egypt. The first thing Sisi did when he came into power in Egypt was seal the tunnels. Did he have to destroy all of Gaza to seal the tunnels? Israel couldn’t have done the same thing—seal the tunnels on its side of the border, exactly what Sisi did in Egypt? What did the Hamas have? It had spoons. It had shovels. You’re telling me that Israel didn’t have the earth-moving equipment to build a wall that went deeper than the tunnels? It had nothing to do with the tunnels entering Israel.

    The problem was, the tunnels in Gaza, it turned out, they had created a fairly sophisticated network of tunnels, incidentally—I know we’re not allowed to make these comparisons—not unlike the bunkers that were built in the Warsaw Ghetto—primitive, but effective—and the Hamas fighters were able to come out of the tunnels, and they inflicted a significant number of casualties on Israel. During Operation Cast Lead in 2008, '09, 10 Israeli combatants were killed, of which four were from friendly fire. This time it was about 65. Now, during the Lebanon War in 2006, about 120 Israeli combatants were killed, but that was against the Hezbollah, which is a formidable guerrilla army. So, half and more were killed in Gaza this time. So, Israel's aim was not to destroy the tunnels going into Israel. That’s ridiculous. What they wanted to do was destroy the tunnel system inside Gaza, because now an effective—not very effective, but effective—guerrilla force had been created. And Israel, every few years, has to—or less than few years, has to mow the lawn in Gaza. And so, they wanted to make sure the next time they mow the lawn—

    AMY GOODMAN: Why do you say "mow the lawn"?

    NORMAN FINKELSTEIN: Well, that’s the Israeli expression. You go in, and you kill a thousand people, destroy everything in sight, and Israel calls that "mowing the lawn." So every few years they have to go into Gaza and mow the lawn. They want to make sure next time they mow the lawn—because if you read the Israeli commentators, who are really a sick bunch of people, all of them are talking now about the next war. Every single commentator is talking about the next war. This one isn’t even over yet. But they want to make sure the next time they go in, there won’t be tunnels. So that was the real aim of the mission.

    The problem was, they had reached a certain point in Gaza, and now, if they went further, they would have to enter what are called the built-up areas. And those are very densely populated. Remember, Gaza is six times as densely populated as Manhattan. So if they went into the densely populated areas, we would be talking about thousands and thousands of casualties. And Netanyahu knew the international community wouldn’t accept it, because when Israel goes into a place, it doesn’t want combatant casualties, so it blasts everything in sight. You go into densely populated areas and you blast everything in sight, well, then you’re talking about thousands and thousands of casualties.

    The other problem was, these tunnels were actually not vulnerable to aerial bombing and artillery shells. So even if they destroyed everything in sight, the tunnels are still there, Hamas comes out, and significant Israeli casualties. So Netanyahu realized ground invasion is over. There’s no further they can go, because of the domestic Israeli constraint: They don’t tolerate combatant casualties. The international constraint kicked in when Obama said, "It’s over, folks. Have to stop. Killed too many U.N. people this time." And then the ceasefire was signed.
    http://www.democracynow.org/2014/8/5/ceasefire_after_gaza_assault_leaves_1800
  9. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    09 Sep '14 10:48
    Originally posted by finnegan
    a prominent Foreign Office minister in Britain, Sayeeda Warsi, has resigned, saying Britain’s policy on the crisis in Gaza is, quote, "morally indefensible." In an interview with The Huffington Post, Warsi criticized Britain for pressuring Palestinian leadership not to seek justice at the International Criminal Court. On Monday, Human Rights Watch ur ...[text shortened]... ed multiple examples of Israeli soldiers shooting and killing fleeing civilians in Gaza.
    I say good riddence to that prejudice Muslim.

    Sayeeda Warsi should long ago have been ejected from the British Cabinet. It is to David Cameron’s eternal shame that he has allowed Ms. Warsi to pick the timing of this, announcing her resignation this morning over the government’s stand on the Israel-HAMAS war.

    She has famously said that “Islamophobia” has “passed the dinner-table test“. “Islamophobia” is a nasty propaganda word that has been put into circulation that is the supposed equal of racialism and is dispensed freely to shut down those who try to point out flaws in the Islamic religion or its adherents. Those who use it are either naïfs, unwittingly aiding a totalitarian campaign, or something altogether more sinister.

    She always winds up siding with the reactionaries of her religion, but always presents the argument in the language of tolerance and diversity—in supporting the burka, for example. Perhaps she is simply a useful idiot for the Islamic zealots, but the flashes of ruthlessness whenever she is directly threatened—on her expenses ethics, say, or her career as window-dressing for this wretched Tory Party—make one wonder if there is not a more solid and dangerous core. Thanks then that this ambiguity is no further danger to British interests, and good riddance to one of the worst examples of reverse discrimination in this young century.

    Ms. Warsi went on to say in another post-resignation interview that her problem with the Cameron government was that it did not treat Israel in the same way it is treating Vladimir Putin, Iran, Bashar al-Assad, and the Islamic State.

    http://kyleorton1991.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/good-riddance-to-sayeeda-warsi/
  10. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    09 Sep '14 13:23
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    I say good riddence to that prejudice Muslim.

    Sayeeda Warsi should long ago have been ejected from the British Cabinet. It is to David Cameron’s eternal shame that he has allowed Ms. Warsi to pick the timing of this, announcing her resignation this morning over the government’s stand on the Israel-HAMAS war.

    She has famously said that “Islamoph ...[text shortened]... c State.

    http://kyleorton1991.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/good-riddance-to-sayeeda-warsi/
    “Islamophobia” is a nasty propaganda word that has been put into circulation that is the supposed equal of racialism
    This is what Islamaphobia looks like:
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The point is they are both Islamic terrorists groups and they should be eliminated like we eliminate rats, cockroaches, spiders, and ants (or any other pests) from our house.
  11. 09 Sep '14 15:53
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/07/israel-palestinian-unity-land-grab

    "For Israel, the beginning of wisdom is to admit its mistakes.
    Israel should embrace Palestinian unity for its own security.
    A further land grab will only inflame tensions."
    --Avi Shlaim (an Israeli Jewish historian)

    "Israel has a habit of justifying its actio ...[text shortened]... ctable outrage
    (including instant accusations of 'hating all Jews' ) from supporters of Israel.
    "For Israel, the beginning of wisdom is to admit its mistakes."

    You might consider that yourself.
  12. 09 Sep '14 19:39
    Originally posted by Finnegan to RJHinds
    [quote]Drawing from his family experiences as [b]Palestinian Christians in the Middle East around the time Israel was established in 1948, Said argued for the establishment of a Palestinian state. Further, he was an advocate for equal political and human rights for Palestinians in Israel, and urged the U.S. to pressure Israel to grant ...[text shortened]... American fundamentalist Christians. As close to disappearing up their fundament as you can get.[/b]
    RJHinds has been busy reiterating outrageous lies about the late Edward Said.

    In fact, Edward Said had many Jewish friends (who also criticized Israel),
    and his closest friend (arguably) was Daniel Barenboim, an Israeli Jew.
    (Would RJHinds like to bet a large amount of money that Daniel Barenboim
    would not be willing to confirm that Edward Said was his close friend?)

    As for Edward Said's relationship with Arafat and the PLO, it varied according
    to the circumstances. Arafat chose Edward Said (a professor of English)
    to write the official translation (from Arabic to English) of the Palestinian
    Declaration of Independence. Later, however, Edward Said denounced
    Arafat for foolishly (why trust US promises?) conceding far too much to
    Israel at Oslo. Avi Shlaim, an Israeli Jewish historian, recently has written
    that he now believes that Edward Said was right in criticizing the Oslo Accords.
    So, for the rest of their lives, Arafat and Edward Said became political adversaries
    while still recognizing that Israel was the Palestinians' common enemy.

    As for his reputation among American academics, Edward Said had some political
    enemies (supporters of Israel or US imperialism), yet he was widely respected
    enough as a scholar to be elected president of the Modern Language Association.
    Academic books continue to be written and published (I own some of them)
    to discuss Edward Said's work in various fields.

    RJHinds is not only an extreme Christian fundamentalist, he's also evidently
    a virulent racist (I note that his posts like to blame all US 'racial problems'
    on black Americans, while absolving white Americans of their responsibility).
    As such, RJHind's anti-Arab racism is much more important than any sense
    of empathy (which he obviously lacks) for Palestinian Christians.
  13. 09 Sep '14 19:44 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by Finnegan to RJHinds
    “Islamophobia” is a nasty propaganda word that has been put into circulation that is the supposed equal of racialism
    This is what Islamaphobia looks like:
    Originally posted by RJHinds
    The point is they are both Islamic terrorists groups and they should be eliminated like we eliminate rats, cockroaches, spiders, and ants (or any other pests) from our house.
    Rafael Eitan (1929-2004), who was Chief of the Staff of the IDF, compared
    all Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and secular) to 'cockroaches' who
    would have to hide in the darkness lest the IDF should squash them all.

    RJHinds's usage of terms like 'rats, cockroaches, spiders, and ants' to dehumanize
    and demonize the Palestinians is nothing new from supporters of Israel.
  14. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Sep '14 01:49
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    RJHinds has been busy reiterating outrageous lies about the late Edward Said.

    In fact, Edward Said had many Jewish friends (who also criticized Israel),
    and his closest friend (arguably) was Daniel Barenboim, an Israeli Jew.
    (Would RJHinds like to bet a large amount of money that Daniel Barenboim
    would not be willing to confirm that Edward Said was h ...[text shortened]... more important than any sense
    of empathy (which he obviously lacks) for Palestinian Christians.
    Edward Said is a fraud.

    Friend and foe alike have wondered how Barack Obama wangled a seat next to Edward Said (pronounced sigh-EED), at an Arab-American community dinner in Chicago in 1998 on the fiftieth anniversary of the Palestinian nakbah, or disaster.

    At the time, Obama was an obscure state senator and Said, according to the Nation, was "probably the best-known intellectual in the world."

    It is possible that the pair had met when Obama was a student and Said a professor at Columbia University. The Los Angeles Times has reported that Obama took at least one course taught by Said.

    It is possible, too, that Said and Obama ran in the same radical New York circles. Among Said's friends and allies on the America-phobic, Arafat-loving left was none other than Bill Ayers. When Ayers published his memoir Fugitive Days in 2001, Said was happy to provide a blurb. "For anyone who cares about the sorry mess we are in," wrote Said, "this book is essential, indeed necessary reading."

    Whatever their prior relationship, photos of the 1998 event show Obama and Said immersed in deep conversation. As to its content, Said might have been reassuring the newly minted author that yes, if you can trace your ancestors' roots to the third world, and yes, if you toe the progressive line, you can make up your whole life story and get away with it. Said knew. He had been there, done that, gotten the T-shirt.

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/11/obama_pal_edward_said_another.html
  15. Standard member RJHinds
    The Near Genius
    10 Sep '14 01:51
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Rafael Eitan (1929-2004), who was Chief of the Staff of the IDF, compared
    all Palestinians (Muslims, Christians, and secular) to 'cockroaches' who
    would have to hide in the darkness lest the IDF should squash them all.

    RJHinds's usage of terms like 'rats, cockroaches, spiders, and ants' to dehumanize
    and demonize the Palestinians is nothing new from supporters of Israel.
    So not being original is another one of my flaws?