This is interesting. From the BBC:
Although Israel withdrew from Gaza more than a year ago, its control over the lives of Palestinians there is in some ways even tighter than before, a new report by an Israeli human rights organisation says.
In the days after Israeli troops and settlers pulled out of the territory, the then Israeli leader, Ariel Sharon addressed the United Nations.
He declared "the end of Israeli control over and responsibility for the Gaza Strip".
But a study by Gisha challenges that claim. The organisation says it aims to "protect the fundamental rights of Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories by imposing human rights law as a limitation on the behaviour of Israel's military".
"Israel continues to control Gaza through an 'invisible hand'," the organisation says, in a detailed, 100-page report.
"In contrast to the rhetoric used to describe the disengagement plan, Israel has not relinquished control over Gaza but rather removed some elements of control while tightening other significant controls."
Gisha argues that this means that Israel still has extensive legal obligations for the wellbeing of the territory's population that are not being met.
It says: "Gaza residents know that significant aspects of their lives - the ability to exit or enter Gaza, the supply of medicine, fuel and other basic goods, the possibility to transport crops to export markets, the ability to use electric lights - depend on decisions made by Israel's military."
The report begins by referring to the continued, overt military pressure on Gaza.
Until the ceasefire declared in November, Israeli air raids, artillery fire and armoured incursions led to the deaths of hundreds of Palestinians.
This was all part of the army's confrontation with militant groups - like the Islamic Jihad organisation - which are based in Gaza.
On an almost daily basis they launch crudely made missiles at towns and villages in neighbouring southern Israel - often describing their attacks as retaliation for Israeli army actions in the occupied West Bank.
But the new study focuses more on the much less visible forms of continuing Israeli control over Gaza.
There is an air blockade. Israel has not allowed Gaza's international airport to re-open.
The Israeli navy continues to patrol the coastline in what it says in an effort to prevent arms smuggling. Palestinian fishing boats are sometimes fired on for straying outside Israeli-imposed zones.
The Israelis have also been able to maintain control over all Gaza's land links with the outside world - including the territory's border with Egypt.
There are no Israeli troops on the frontier any longer, but Israel's co-operation is required for the border crossing to function under an agreement struck between Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt and the European Union.
That Israeli co-operation has frequently been withdrawn, and the border was closed for nearly half of the first year after Israel pulled out of Gaza.
Israeli control over the flow of goods in and out of the territory remains total. And frequent closures of the main cargo terminal at the Karni crossing point have had a devastating impact on the Gazan economy.
The Israelis say the restrictions have been necessary on account of continual security threats. Two years ago there was an attack by militants at Karni that left several Israelis dead.
But Palestinians believe that the border closures are part of a deliberate effort to maintain pressure on Gaza by strangling its economy.
The report also highlights a range of administrative controls.
It points out that Israel has retained control of the Palestinian population registry. This enables it to decide who can be a resident of Gaza - and who can come and go.
The reports says that tens of thousands of people have been barred from the registry and consequently have no identity papers.
The study cites the case of Mirvat Alnahal, a lawyer of Palestinian origin and who has lived in Gaza since the mid-1990s.
"I am trapped here. I cannot leave for fear that I won't be allowed to return," she says.
"My husband's ID card says he is married, but the box for spouse's name is blank. My children were born in Gaza to a mother who, officially, does not exist."
The report stresses the importance of Israel's continuing control over areas of the Palestinian tax system.
And in its effort to apply pressure on the Hamas government, Israel has withheld payment of tax revenue it owes the Palestinians worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
The report points out that this has had a crippling impact on the services that the government has been able to provide - and the policy has constituted another example of Israel's ability to continue to exert significant control in Gaza.
The study ends by saying that despite the withdrawal of its soldiers, Israel's role in the territory means that it remains bound under international and humanitarian law to allow freedoms of movement and economic activity.
With continuing control comes continuing legal responsibility, the report says.
The Israeli government has completely rejected this conclusion.
Responding to the study, a foreign ministry spokesman said: "We would argue that to say legally that Israel has control of what goes on inside the Gaza Strip when there are no Israeli police, soldiers or civilians there is very far fetched.
"It doesn't hold water under international law."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6270331.stm
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Obviously the significance of this report is due in part that it is done by an Israeli agency.
Seemingly it isn't just the socialists on this site, Amnesty International, the UN and every other human rights group who's screaming about the situation in this rogue state that dares call itself a democracy!
SHAME!
Originally posted by shavixmirFor some silly reason the Israeli's have this feeling if they didn't patrol like that, there would be more dead Israeli's. They are protecting their own, Shav.
Oh no, my little right-wing friends...
This thread is not gonna disappear that fast!
Have a read. Go on. You know you want to!
Originally posted by sonhouseyou have a point they are protecting their own and that's their problem. "Hearts and minds" is not something that enters the pysche of the Israeli leadership (with the exception of Dayan).
For some silly reason the Israeli's have this feeling if they didn't patrol like that, there would be more dead Israeli's. They are protecting their own, Shav.
A solution to the problem will be when they realise it might be a good idea to think about the people around them.
It will only get worse, the joke is that for all their plotting and duplicity, they will fail. Keep a population poor and without hope. You get a population explosion and more volatile bigger problems. Every decade the Palestinians have developed bigger hatred and more violent methods. How many Palestinians are dreaming of killing Jews as we speak? An awful lot more than ten years ago.
Originally posted by shavixmirIf they wanted the paleos all dead, they would kill all of them. It would be rather simple.
Errr...no.
They're exterminating another race.
I noticed this report didn't seem to put much emphasis on Islamic Jihad firing mortars from civilan property.
Can we all stop pretending that there is such a thing as an unbias source when it comes to Israel/Palestine?
I'll tell you my bias straight out at least. The Jews got it together enough to have a country. The Paloes can't seem to stop seething long enough to accomplish anything.
When the partition plan was floated they Jews said, "Sweet! It doesn't get luckier than this!" and the Paleos decided they hated Jews more than they wanted a country. The Jews decided to declare independence anyway. The Arabs got huffy and started a war that is still happening. Here we are, 6 decades of war later, talking about the poor Paleos not having a country because they still still hate the Jews more then they love their children. They can't even get along with themselves without adult supervision, is it any wonder they don't have a country?
Originally posted by MerkSome truth, but very simplified and distorted.
If they wanted the paleos all dead, they would kill all of them. It would be rather simple.
I noticed this report didn't seem to put much emphasis on Islamic Jihad firing mortars from civilan property.
Can we all stop pretending that there is such a thing as an unbias source when it comes to Israel/Palestine?
I'll tell you my bias straight out at leas ...[text shortened]... g with themselves without adult supervision, is it any wonder they don't have a country?
I disagree that Israeli leaders ever wanted peace, they were a group of terrorist thugs. They wanted far more than the partition plan. It was when it was clear the Arab Nations were to attack, then they pretended to agree with the partition plan. They always planned to take more.
You find it very easy to condemn a whole race of people for the stupidity of their leaders. But at least you are consistently racist.
when a bunch of illegal immigrants come in and take over your country, you expect people to be happy with that?
Your views do not explain why Israeli leaders have diliberated provoked Palestinians for decades; Sent death squads into refugee camps etc. If you want peace you don't deliberately defile sacred monuments and bomb civilian targets.
Originally posted by petrosianpupilYou are right about that. What the Jews really wanted was the whole thing+. And many still do.
Some truth, but very simplified and distorted.
I disagree that Israeli leaders ever wanted peace, they were a group of terrorist thugs. They wanted far more than the partition plan. It was when it was clear the Arab Nations were to attack, then they pretended to agree with the partition plan. They always planned to take more.
You find it very e ...[text shortened]... tc. If you want peace you don't deliberately defile sacred monuments and bomb civilian targets.
Originally posted by shavixmirThe Nazis wanted to conquer Europe. I just want to laugh at it.
Ohhhh...look at the little nazi crawling out of the woodwork...
Seriously though, I am like a lot of Americans on this issue. In the days after 9/11 we saw photos and video from around the world. The tributes we saw from the people of countries like France made us cry. What we saw from Palestine was far different.
The French, now those are good people. No matter their differnces with a country, the still respect human life enough to moved by its loss.
The same cannot be said about the Palestinians. When we saw the footage of the celebrations is Gaza, we stopped feeling sorry for them immediately. Their fate is controlled ultimately by themselves. Blaming the Jews won't get it done. What will get it done its getting their crap together. No more excuses. Set up a government that's not totally dysfunctional and stop sending rockets/mortars/boomers into Israel. Within a year Israel would be under too much pressure from the world to resist. They would have to start transfering important controls like import/export.
Only the paleos can get themselves out of this.
Originally posted by shavixmirTalk about hyperbole. EXTERMINATING? That's a bit rough. I lived in Jerusalem for three years, been going there since 1990. My kids graduated from the Anglican International School there, we had a great time, especially as folk musicians, playing some nice venues, but we still had friends on the Palestinian side. The worse thing Israel is doing is to only allow water to flow through the pipes into the west bank and other Palestinian territorries, allowing only 4 hours a day and the water actually delivered was all but toxic, it could not grow crops. THAT pissed everyone off. America sponsered a 50 million dollar water works project near Bethleham to relieve some of the suffering but I wouldn't call that extermination. Why didn't Jordan come up with water works for the Palestinians? The answer to that is this: They consider Palestinians to be low-lifes somewhat like the American Indian is to Cowboys. They are looked down by the entire Arab community, Jordan at any time could grant them land that would be twice as big as anything they could get in Gaza but you don't see the Jordanians stepping in with help. They could shiv a git less. As far as Jordan is concerned, Palestinians are trash. They even like the Bedouins better than the Palestinians.
Errr...no.
They're exterminating another race.
Originally posted by sonhouseLet's not forget the paleos attempting to grab Jordan in '70. That has a lot to do with Jordanian distrust toward paleos. Heck, even the Iraqis want the paleos out.
Talk about hyperbole. EXTERMINATING? That's a bit rough. I lived in Jerusalem for three years, been going there since 1990. My kids graduated from the Anglican International School there, we had a great time, especially as folk musicians, playing some nice venues, but we still had friends on the Palestinian side. The worse thing Israel is doing is to only a ...[text shortened]... concerned, Palestinians are trash. They even like the Bedouins better than the Palestinians.