@sh76 saidThere is some logic here, if the Europeans are that happy, then why place such restrictions on alcohol? Which should tell us that measuring the happiness of a country's population may not be possible.
I was in Iceland a few years back. A hotel worker explained to me that the government controls all alcohol sales are strictly controlled and regulated by the government - That alcohol is not always available and very expensive. These rules exist because otherwise alcoholism would be rampant.
Gemini confirmed this and said that similar systems exist in Nordic countries Sweden, ...[text shortened]... it their alcohol consumption by force to prevent them from all becoming raging alcoholics.
Hmmm.
On the other hand, Americans are frequently uncomfortable with any kind of government restriction, even if it makes sense, and find it difficult to accept that another country may have found a better way of operating.
Perhaps it all depends on which system one feels comfortable with.
@mchill saidI think you're on to something.
There is some logic here, if the Europeans are that happy, then why place such restrictions on alcohol? Which should tell us that measuring the happiness of a country's population may not be possible.
On the other hand, Americans are frequently uncomfortable with any kind of government restriction, even if it makes sense, and find it difficult to accept that another countr ...[text shortened]... nd a better way of operating.
Perhaps it all depends on which system one feels comfortable with.
By definition, happiness studies have to rely in self-reporting. The only way to really know whether people are happy is to ask them.
Culturally, Americans are much more suspicious of authority and hostile to external control of their lives.
That cultural characteristic probably doesn't correlate very well with high self-reported happiness.
I'm not even sure what "happiness" in a vacuum really means. I like to think of myself as a relatively happy person and certainly an objective view of my life would probably conclude that I'm doing pretty well. But I have my blue spells and frustrations, like most other people. Ask me if I'm happy, and my answer will likely depend on the day of the week... maybe even the time of day.
I imagine that being culturally docile and conforming would correlate well with self-reported happiness.
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@mchill saidEvery country in Europe has their own policy, and we shouldn't compare north of Europe with the mid/southern wine-producing countries. As far as Sweden is concerned, our view on alcohol goes back a long time and has traditions. But alcohol is easily available. 🙂
There is some logic here, if the Europeans are that happy, then why place such restrictions on alcohol? Which should tell us that measuring the happiness of a country's population may not be possible.
On the other hand, Americans are frequently uncomfortable with any kind of government restriction, even if it makes sense, and find it difficult to accept that another countr ...[text shortened]... nd a better way of operating.
Perhaps it all depends on which system one feels comfortable with.
@Torunn saidI'm sure they do, but it seems to be factually unchallengeable that Nordic countries generally regulate alcohol more strictly than most other places. I'm sure the specifics vary.
I believe the Scandinavian countries have different policies on the sale of alcohol.
@sh76 saidSame in Alaska. (I have relatives there.) Six months of the year darkness are hard for anyone to bear. There are basically two ways that people cope with prolonged darkness: alcoholism, or religion.
I was in Iceland a few years back. A hotel worker explained to me that the government controls all alcohol sales are strictly controlled and regulated by the government - That alcohol is not always available and very expensive. These rules exist because otherwise alcoholism would be rampant.
Gemini confirmed this and said that similar systems exist in Nordic countries Sweden, ...[text shortened]... it their alcohol consumption by force to prevent them from all becoming raging alcoholics.
Hmmm.
@mchill saidThere is well-founded research on the long-term health effects of sunlight deprivation. Just google it--there are literally hundreds of studies:
There is some logic here, if the Europeans are that happy, then why place such restrictions on alcohol? Which should tell us that measuring the happiness of a country's population may not be possible.
On the other hand, Americans are frequently uncomfortable with any kind of government restriction, even if it makes sense, and find it difficult to accept that another countr ...[text shortened]... nd a better way of operating.
Perhaps it all depends on which system one feels comfortable with.
https://www.sunshinehealthfoundation.org/post/14-health-conditions-affected-by-insufficient-sun-exposure
Sunlight deprivation affects different races differently, and also affects people in regions of the planet with little sunlight more severely than in the tropics. People living in the far north recognized this, and have taken steps to control what might otherwise become a mass-public-heath crisis. Obviously, you can't change how the sun shines, but you can change people's coping behavior. Restricting alcohol is one of the measures which has been taken to reduce the incidence of mass alcoholism in those countries most severely affected.
I might also mention that it has long been known that native Americans don't metabolize alcohol the way Europeans do, having never discovered fermentation themselves and therefore not adapted to it; so it made good sense to prohibit them from drinking in bars--it was not racist in any invidious sense, it just was common sense, not to let them drink.
@moonbus saidFirst of all it was an joke based on Finland’s history of high levels of alcoholism and suicide.
How did we go from happiness to suicide? There is no correlation, neither inverse nor obverse. Afghanistan is at the bottom of the list for happiness, but also has a very low suicide rate. There's no telling whether a country is happy by looking at its suicide rate.
Secondly Afghanistan is run by Abrahamic fanatics who tell people suicide is a sin punished by God in the afterlife.
@sh76 saidI think the high propensity towards alcoholism and potential suicide has more to do with the long spells of darkness, which obviously goes with a lack of sunlight which correlates with high depression rates and a sense of futility. Government acknowledges the problem and proactively puts policies in place to mitigate the situation. The question should be if government did nothing and there was no comprehensive social safety net would the rate of suicide and alcoholism be unacceptably high?
I was in Iceland a few years back. A hotel worker explained to me that the government controls all alcohol sales are strictly controlled and regulated by the government - That alcohol is not always available and very expensive. These rules exist because otherwise alcoholism would be rampant.
Gemini confirmed this and said that similar systems exist in Nordic countries Sweden, ...[text shortened]... it their alcohol consumption by force to prevent them from all becoming raging alcoholics.
Hmmm.
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@AThousandYoung saidSo religious fanaticism has its benefits?
Secondly Afghanistan is run by Abrahamic fanatics who tell people suicide is a sin punished by God in the afterlife.
@kmax87 saidWell I suppose out of fear it might keep people alive, but apparently not in a happy way.
So religious fanaticism has its benefits?
@moonbus saidSo, let me get this straight.
Same in Alaska. (I have relatives there.) Six months of the year darkness are hard for anyone to bear. There are basically two ways that people cope with prolonged darkness: alcoholism, or religion.
Darkness in the winter (remember, over-all they have the same number of daylight hours as everyone else over the course of the year) is enough to get them depressed enough so that they need to resort to alcoholism to cope.
But it's not enough to stop them from finishing at the top on all these happiness surveys/studies?
@Indonesia-Phil saidPreventing suicide is good mainly because people who feel like committing suicide at one time will likely get over it at some point if they can just make it through their rough patch.
Well I suppose out of fear it might keep people alive, but apparently not in a happy way.
According to this study, only 8% of people who attempted suicide re-attempted.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8516749/
@sh76 saidI think you describe well the 'human condition' , we are all of us subject to periods or moments when life seems a dreary or troublesome thing, regardless of said life, and I daresay people living in a tent somewhere in Gaza have their moments of happiness. I think we need 'a bit of everything' to keep us sane and functioning, constant happiness would get boring after a while....These are complex issues, of course, and difficult to project onto a national level, and out of adversity can often come the creative spirit. If Leonard Cohen had been a happier person.....Also, being miserable can sometimes be a balm to the spirit, and sometimes we wake up happy without really knowing why; we are all of us complex creatures, trying to come to terms with our consciousness and self - awareness, whilst our subconscious gets on with the job in hand; gotta make it through somehow...
I think you're on to something.
By definition, happiness studies have to rely in self-reporting. The only way to really know whether people are happy is to ask them.
Culturally, Americans are much more suspicious of authority and hostile to external control of their lives.
That cultural characteristic probably doesn't correlate very well with high self-reported happine ...[text shortened]... agine that being culturally docile and conforming would correlate well with self-reported happiness.
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@sh76 saidNo, you've misinterpreted the data. Long periods of darkness in winter is enough to make Scandinavians adopt effective social and political measures to keep them alive and contented.
So, let me get this straight.
Darkness in the winter (remember, over-all they have the same number of daylight hours as everyone else over the course of the year) is enough to get them depressed enough so that they need to resort to alcoholism to cope.
But it's not enough to stop them from finishing at the top on all these happiness surveys/studies?
But not in Alaska--they're not with it, politically. My sister lived there for many years. She said the two most active social groups were churches and alcoholics anonymous. They treat it as an individual (moral) issue, not collectively as a public health issue.