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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 21 Mar '10 17:53
    The big talk is about whether or not the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot on health care reform. I'm of the opinion it's worse politically if they don't, and others certainly differ with me on this issue.

    This seems like a win-win for Republicans, right? It takes great skill to build a house but any moron with a sledge hammer can smash one down. This is why so many Presidents have tried and failed to pass meaningful health care reform. The Republicans have been very successful at smearing the bill, so it should be good for them whether or not it passes. If it doesn't pass they can claim a victory, if it does pass they can a huge campaign talking point. Win-win, right?

    Or is it? Here's how I see it. The reason the Republicans have been so successful is because they've been outrageously sensational with their rhetoric. Death panels! Forced abortion! Government funded abortions! Government takeover! Nationalized health care! Pulling the plug on grandma! Insurance for illegal Mexicans!" etc.

    After the bill passes and the sky doesn't fall, I think people will start seeing the fearmongering for what it was. If the bill fails the Republicans don't have to worry about comparing rhetoric to reality.
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    21 Mar '10 19:17
    All in, sure. The question is whether they're holding pocket aces or 2-7 off suit. Or more precisely, is the bill and how it will be perceived down the line closer to one or the other
  3. 21 Mar '10 21:29
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    The big talk is about whether or not the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot on health care reform. I'm of the opinion it's worse politically if they don't, and others certainly differ with me on this issue.

    This seems like a win-win for Republicans, right? It takes great skill to build a house but any moron with a sledge hammer can s ...[text shortened]... the bill fails the Republicans don't have to worry about comparing rhetoric to reality.
    Ya, I think your point is good. As I told you in a PM, I am just concerned with how we pay for it, and somehow can't see that stream lining the paper work, will happen?
    cautiously optimistic? My eyes were slapped open when I had to apply for S.S. disability. The wait can wreck you financially. If I had not been covered by both short term and long term disability, ran the mortgage back on my home to 30 years, my life would have gone down hill very fast.
    Not to mention our 401Ks had just taken the worse lickin I had seen.
    I suppose my view is different than what you see.
  4. 22 Mar '10 02:46
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    The big talk is about whether or not the Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot on health care reform. I'm of the opinion it's worse politically if they don't, and others certainly differ with me on this issue.

    This seems like a win-win for Republicans, right? It takes great skill to build a house but any moron with a sledge hammer can s ...[text shortened]... the bill fails the Republicans don't have to worry about comparing rhetoric to reality.
    I don't see their rhetoric as at all over the top. The problem is that none of the effects of HCR will happen even in the near future. Other than the new taxes "on the rich", not much really changes for 3 or 4 years, so the casual observer may react "that wasn't so bad". It may be 10 years before the first plug is pulled.

    Remember Medicare when passed was very popular among all Americans, and got broad bipartisan support. Still it's first year costs were about 10X the projections. The Democrats are betting most Americans won't notice the costs up front, and by the time the system begins to work, bad or good, it'll be way past the time it can be unraveled.

    I also disagree with the premise of your house analogy as well as its application. Building a house is arguably easier than tearing one down safely. As to the application, passing a bill is far easier than getting it repealed, especially when it makes the type of massive changes that the proposed HCR makes, and promises benefits to the many, while the burdens are on a few.

    I prefer to look at this for its merit or lack thereof, than for its political fallout. The problem, as I see it, is that the US Constitution prescribes a very limited federal government. It continues to grow far beyond its prescribed parameters, and I think we're all the worse for it. Reversing this trend is next to impossible, as people become addicted to government entitlements even when they are demonstrably unsustainable. Social Security and Medicare are both on life support financially with unfunded liabilities in the trillions of dollars, and with an economy unlikely to grow to catch up. Adding yet more entitlements is hastening the fall of a once great country.
  5. 22 Mar '10 05:06
    With Liberty and Justice for all.
    step back in time, when the peoples voices were what mattered. We came here to rid ourselves of tyrannts, we fought for our Liberties.

    who will stand?