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Originally posted by shavixmirIn this case, proponents of the Hawaii scheme could claim that "rich" people bankrupted the "free" system. The next time they try and fob this onto Hawaiians, they will probably include a means test, which will exclude "wealthy" individuals, making it just another welfare program.
Health care isn't cheap.
That's the whole reason why one wants everyone to pay for it, so that nobody is left out.
And I see no reason why wealthy people shouldn't benefit from it either.
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterThen how do you explain the inefficiency of the current US health care system? For example, Sweden provides similar standard health care for everyone, and not just the insured, at a lower cost per capita.
It was inefficient from the moment the government started administering it.
How efficient do you think a private police department would be? That's about as efficient as a private health care system.
Originally posted by BadwaterDSR doesn't offer any real solutions to people like you and me.
Health care is not affordable to me. If universal health care is so distasteful, then what exactly is your solution to deal with the health care crisis?
Except:
"You were not born from the right vagina"
"You don't work hard enough, loser"
"Sucks to be you guess you should have went to college"
"Life ain't fair!"
Originally posted by BadwaterHealth care won't be affordable for you with universal heath care either. You'll just have your money taken away from you in the form of taxes. As Hawaii found out, there are just too many people out there to give them the kind of health care that we're used to.
Health care is not affordable to me. If universal health care is so distasteful, then what exactly is your solution to deal with the health care crisis?
The only way universal health care is going to work will be for the government to step in and put price controls on how much people in the health profession can charge. Doctors and nurses will start getting paid comparable to teachers and police. The medical lobby, as well as the health insurance lobby is going to fork out big bucks to make sure that doesn't happen.
Originally posted by EladarYour taxes are taken away from you now and all you get for it is a kick ass military and a crumbling national infrastructure.
Health care won't be affordable for you with universal heath care either. You'll just have your money taken away from you in the form of taxes. As Hawaii found out, there are just too many people out there to give them the kind of health care that we're used to.
The only way universal health care is going to work will be for the government to step in and ...[text shortened]... the health insurance lobby is going to fork out big bucks to make sure that doesn't happen.
Wouldn't you rather get a little something for your taxes dollar?
As to doctors and nurses getting paid the same as teachers and police, well you don't know diddly about universal health care.
And/or this is a testament to how poorly we pay our teachers, the people tasked with educating our children.
Originally posted by EladarSources?
Health care won't be affordable for you with universal heath care either. You'll just have your money taken away from you in the form of taxes. As Hawaii found out, there are just too many people out there to give them the kind of health care that we're used to.
The only way universal health care is going to work will be for the government to step in and ...[text shortened]... the health insurance lobby is going to fork out big bucks to make sure that doesn't happen.
Here are some stats on average pay for doctors in the UK and the US
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/People_with_Doctor_of_Medicine_(MD)_Degrees/Salary
http://www.payscale.com/research/UK/People_with_Doctor_of_Medicine_(MD)_Degrees/Salary
The U.S. doctor makes slightly more, but pays considerably more in malpractice insurance.
I will post sources for insurance asap.
Originally posted by jlillyThey wouldn't / shouldn't. That is the fear mongering that the right always uses as an argument against it. There are no facts to back it up. They will also use "you'll have to wait forever just to get care" and "the quality of your care will drop" even though statistics will prove them wrong on both of those.
Thanks for the links. I'm not completely clear on the pros/cons of Universal health care quite yet but I'm interested in learning why doctors and nurses salaries would drop if we had UHC.
The opponents of UHC rarely state statistics or facts in the arguments against, but rely on you taking them at their word and not doing the research for yourself.
Originally posted by jlillyI just did a google search and this was the first site I clicked:
Sources?
http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2008/01/american-versus-australian-european.html
Here are their numbers from 2004:
USA-- $266,773
Netherlands -- $175,155
UK---$127,285
Italy--$81,414
Germany--$56,455
Italy and Germany numbers are very comparable to teacher salaries, especially in states like New York and California.
In any case, I think it is obvious that US doctors make significantly more than in nations that have Socialized Medicine.
Originally posted by EladarAnd pay considerably more in malpractice insurance for a net of considerably less. Look at the big picture.
I just did a google search and this was the first site I clicked:
http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2008/01/american-versus-australian-european.html
Here are their numbers from 2004:
USA-- $266,773
Netherlands -- $175,155
UK---$127,285
Italy--$81,414
Germany--$56,455
Italy and Germany numbers are very comparable to teacher salaries, especial ...[text shortened]... s obvious that US doctors make significantly more than in nations that have Socialized Medicine.