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  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    24 Dec '09 14:09
    BBC News:

    US senators have passed the final Senate version of a historic healthcare reform bill in a boost to President Barack Obama.

    The bill aims to cover 31m uninsured Americans and could lead to the biggest change in US healthcare in decades.

    President Barack Obama welcomed it as offering "real and meaningful" reform, saying it was the most important piece of social legislation since the 1930s.

    However, it must still be reconciled with more expansive legislation passed by the House of Representatives.

    The process of reconciling the two bills is expected to begin in January and will require further tough negotiations.

    Once that has been done - and the process could still be derailed by last-minute changes of heart - Mr Obama will be able to sign the measure into law.

    The Senate bill was adopted by 60 votes to 39, with senators voting along party lines.


    In full: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/8429345.stm

    Polls over the last few months have shown two things: 1. a majority of Americans want health reform, and 2. many Americans got tetchy and uncertain as they witnessed the ugly political process that has brought this version of 'health care' this one step nearer to being enacted.

    As the dust settles, and people separate information from heat-of-battle-disinformation, and facts from falsehoods, will this achievement boost Obama's popularity here on in and then go on to be the defining moment of his first term?
  2. 24 Dec '09 14:52
    Yes.
  3. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    24 Dec '09 15:35
    Originally posted by FMF
    BBC News:

    [quote]US senators have passed the final Senate version of a historic healthcare reform bill in a boost to President Barack Obama.

    The bill aims to cover 31m uninsured Americans and could lead to the biggest change in US healthcare in decades.

    President Barack Obama welcomed it as offering "real and meaningful" reform, saying it was the most i ...[text shortened]... t Obama's popularity here on in and then go on to be the defining moment of his first term?
    It's definitely better for Obama that is passes, rather than that it fails to pass. For 2010, yes, it's a boon.

    By 2012, an opinion will have developed as to whether the healthcare plan is working.

    If the people feel that it is, it will be a great boon to him and a historic victory.

    If not, he's a one term President.

    This issue really is that big.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    24 Dec '09 15:57
    Originally posted by FMF
    BBC News:

    [quote]US senators have passed the final Senate version of a historic healthcare reform bill in a boost to President Barack Obama.

    The bill aims to cover 31m uninsured Americans and could lead to the biggest change in US healthcare in decades.

    President Barack Obama welcomed it as offering "real and meaningful" reform, saying it was the most i ...[text shortened]... t Obama's popularity here on in and then go on to be the defining moment of his first term?
    No.

    Saving the economy, his respectful diplomacy, ending Iraq - these are as or more important.
  5. 24 Dec '09 16:21
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    No.

    Saving the economy, his respectful diplomacy, ending Iraq - these are as or more important.
    dont forget Gitmo
  6. 24 Dec '09 16:59
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    dont forget Gitmo
    While it is an important and emotional issue, I don't think that rises to the magnitude of ending the war in Iraq and turning around the economy.
  7. 24 Dec '09 17:46
    Originally posted by sh76
    [b]It's definitely better for Obama that is passes, rather than that it fails to pass. For 2010, yes, it's a boon.

    By 2012, an opinion will have developed as to whether the healthcare plan is working.
    What!! I thought the plan will not be inacted until 4 years later? Of course, that does not prvent them from taxing the poo out of us until it is started does it?
  8. 24 Dec '09 17:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    What!! I thought the plan will not be inacted until 4 years later? Of course, that does not prvent them from taxing the poo out of us until it is started does it?
    Do you have any idea which benefits are enacted right away, or are you just repeating talking points?
  9. 24 Dec '09 17:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    While it is an important and emotional issue, I don't think that rises to the magnitude of ending the war in Iraq and turning around the economy.
    Nope. The issue will be jobs, not how Wall Street is doing nor how the GDP is doing. Jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs, jobs!!!!

    As for Iraq, the decision to pull out can be tricky. If he pulls out and it all goes up in smoke, this will not look good for him. Therefore, perhaps he should pull out right before the election. This would limit the time in which it might all go up in smoke. Make no mistake though, he must pull out or he is toast no matter the circumstances surrounding Iraq.

    I think it is laughable that we will be asked to judge Obama in 2012 when the issue is the far reaching implications of his policies long after he is gone. All he has to do is say in 4 years that X number of people have access to health care that did not have access at one time. Forget the ballooning deficits that are sure to come and also other problems that are sure to come. As for the economy, Mr. unsustainable just has to find a way to keep spending and survive until 2012 so that the economy does not tank once again before 2012.
  10. 24 Dec '09 18:23
    Originally posted by utherpendragon
    dont forget Gitmo
    I think Obama will pay a price for closing Gitmo and moving them next door to you and I,however, I also blame "W" for letting him have the oppurtunity. "W" should have begun military trials and brought a resolution to the issue. If guilty, they should have all been hung. If innocent, they should have been released. Nuff said.
  11. 24 Dec '09 19:16
    Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
    Do you have any idea which benefits are enacted right away, or are you just repeating talking points?
    Of course the two bills must be merged first so no one can definitively answer your question as of this moment. But as I understand the two points that will come across soon are that you won't get booted off your plan becuase of a bad health issue, and that insurance companies won't deny those with pre-existingh conditions.

    At least that is how I hear it.
  12. 24 Dec '09 19:34
    Like I said, I have a pre-existing condition, and am due to lose coverge Jan 31st. So, There will be plenty of time to inform all of you just how well that works. But I'll tell you, what i saw as far as what takes affect immediately, is alot of window dressing, paper work reduction type stuff, that won't be completed by years end. So much of what is in the process of being enacted, does not take affect until 2014. yesterday I talked with a long time owner of a tanning salon. Now granted that seems like a frivulous thing, but people in the Northwest have to have a sun fix.SADD takes people out here. She told me, her taxes will be 10K this coming year. I asked her how she will survive, and guess what, she raises her prices. So there you have it,, the people pay. Simple enough. taxes always get passed down the line to us. One way or another, you get nickle and dimed into oblivion.
    Property tax,, 4000.00 a year, the town slips in an extra 100.00 to my bill, knowing it's not enough to get me banging on the door, but each home owner gets this extra tax, and for what? House values have gone down, not up.
    With my wife working, and me on S.S., we even pay taxes on my S.S. yet medicare doesn't start until dec,, 2010. So why is that?
    Save your money folks,, those of you who can,,, buy gold? What a joke.
    I say buy food, guns and ammo. when crap hits the fan, it's not Iranians coming for your food, it's the neighbors who didn't put anything away for the future. You can be charitable to a point, but there will be far too many people starving, and they are the meanest bunch.
    300mag, necked down to 6.5 mm 15 power scope
  13. 24 Dec '09 19:40
    Originally posted by Hugh Glass
    Like I said, I have a pre-existing condition, and am due to lose coverge Jan 31st. So, There will be plenty of time to inform all of you just how well that works. But I'll tell you, what i saw as far as what takes affect immediately, is alot of window dressing, paper work reduction type stuff, that won't be completed by years end. So much of what is in th ...[text shortened]... e starving, and they are the meanest bunch.
    300mag, necked down to 6.5 mm 15 power scope
    They raise taxes and increase spending and increase madatory wages and give out entitlements all on the premise that these things are elevating peoples lifestyle. However, it is just juggling oranges. There is no revenue generation in any of this, just government inefficiency in addition to more money going to pay off the interest on the debt.
  14. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    27 Dec '09 03:07
    Originally posted by whodey
    There is no revenue generation in any of this, just government inefficiency in addition to more money going to pay off the interest on the debt.
    A healthy populace is more productive.

    All around the world, justice, education and health are seen as the seen as the cornerstones of both democracy and economic progress. Is it not so in the U.S.?
  15. 27 Dec '09 05:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by FMF
    A healthy populace is more productive.

    All around the world, justice, education and health are seen as the seen as the cornerstones of both democracy and economic progress. Is it not so in the U.S.?
    What then made the US so productive for so long? Was it universal health coverage? If so, I missed that part of US history.

    For the progressive, the lessons learned in history are of no consequence. What we need is change and experimentation claiming all the while that their way is superior. I will say this much, they have a superior way of wrecking the greatest economy in the history of the world, that much I will conceed.