10 Dec 09
Originally posted by telerion!!!
Nothing to do with illegal workers.
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http://ask.census.gov/cgi-bin/askcensus.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.[WORD TOO LONG]
The Census Bureau does not ask about legal (migrant) status of respondents in any of its survey and census programs. As examples, in the decennial census, the American Community Survey, and Current Population Survey as there is no legislative mandate to collect this information. Given the success of Census 2000 in counting nearly every person residing in the United States, we expect that unauthorized migrants were included among people who indicated that the United States was their usual place of residence on the survey date. The foreign-born population includes naturalized U.S. citizens, lawful permanent residents, temporary migrants (e.g., foreign students), humanitarian migrants (e.g., refugees), and unauthorized migrants (people illegally present in the United States).
10 Dec 09
Originally posted by zeeblebotso, the survey that DOESN'T exclude illegal workers IS the one used to calculate unemployment.
!!!
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http://ask.census.gov/cgi-bin/askcensus.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.[WORD TOO LONG]
The Census Bureau d ...[text shortened]... nts (e.g., refugees), and unauthorized migrants (people illegally present in the United States).
(the other survey, of payrolls, may or may not exclude illegal workers, "effectively" or otherwise.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment#United_States_Bureau_of_Labor_Statistics
The Bureau of Labor Statistics measures employment and unemployment (of those over 15 years of age) using two different labor force surveys[30] conducted by the United States Census Bureau (within the United States Department of Commerce) and/or the Bureau of Labor Statistics (within the United States Department of Labor) that gather employment statistics monthly. The Current Population Survey (CPS), or "Household Survey", conducts a survey based on a sample of 60,000 households. This Survey measures the unemployment rate based on the ILO definition.[31] The data are also used to calculate 5 alternate measures of unemployment as a percentage of the labor force based on different definitions noted as U1 through U6:[32]
10 Dec 09
Originally posted by zeeblebotI'm sorry but do you have an effing point?
so, the survey that DOESN'T exclude illegal workers IS the one used to calculate unemployment.
(the other survey, of payrolls, may or may not exclude illegal workers, "effectively" or otherwise.)
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment#United_States_Bureau_of_Labor_Statistics
The Bureau of Labor Statistics measures employment and unemploy ...[text shortened]... a percentage of the labor force based on different definitions noted as U1 through U6:[32]
I know what will make you shut up. The article I linked claims that the economy is in worse shape than an unemployment rate of 10% might suggest to a lot of people.
Are you saying that the age/employment profile of illegal workers is so radically different from that of the rest of the labor force that despite its very small share of the aggregate it changes the basic thesis of the article? Moreover, is this radical difference also only present in one of the years so that it doesn't wash out when the distributions are compared? If so, please construct a coherent argument explaining yourself. If not, then please go somewhere else and post the about the crickets chirping in your head.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by telerioni don't care about the thesis of the argument. i'm just saying counting illegals in one figure and not counting illegals in the other figure can skew the results. if that's what's being done.
I'm sorry but do you have an effing point?
I know what will make you shut up. The article I linked claims that the economy is in worse shape than an unemployment rate of 10% might suggest to a lot of people.
Are you saying that the age/employment profile of illegal workers is so radically different from that of the rest of the labor force that despit ...[text shortened]... If not, then please go somewhere else and post the about the crickets chirping in your head.
re crickets .... you're welcome ...
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by zeeblebotNot necessarily. If they did the same procedure both in 1982 and 2009, then it really shouldn't make much of a difference, particularly because they are a small fraction of the workforce.
i don't care about the thesis of the argument. i'm just saying counting illegals in one figure and not counting illegals in the other figure can skew the results. if that's what's being done.
re crickets .... you're welcome ...
11 Dec 09
I have heard of great depression generations saving a lot more the rest of their lives by odd ways including cutting toilet paper sheets before the perferoated line if it will avoid waste and saving money in holes under the floorboards...
but what else, psychology/economics combination anyone?
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by telerionSo from this perspective the observed increase in obesity amongst all segments in the population has no bearing on this outcome?
The change does not come from unemployment in each age group changing, it comes from the changes in each group's relative weight in the calculation.
11 Dec 09
Unemployment is like poverty. Unless you are truly at the bottom of the ladder it is all a matter of perspective and trends.
If you are getting poorer you feel poorer than you would if you were getting richer but at the same actual wealth.
If jobs are getting scarcer, you may refuse to take a lower paying job.
In reality there are always jobs available for anyone other than the totally unskilled. So unemployment is a measure of how much people think they are worth compared to what salaries are on offer.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadI'm wondering why more jobs aren't being created in South Africa around waste clean-up.
Unemployment is like poverty. Unless you are truly at the bottom of the ladder it is all a matter of perspective and trends.
If you are getting poorer you feel poorer than you would if you were getting richer but at the same actual wealth.
If jobs are getting scarcer, you may refuse to take a lower paying job.
In reality there are always jobs availabl ...[text shortened]... ent is a measure of how much people think they are worth compared to what salaries are on offer.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadPossibly, but if that lower paid job does not cover all your needs and saps your energy in the process how you going to be ready and available to land the job you need to have?
In reality there are always jobs available for anyone other than the totally unskilled. So unemployment is a measure of how much people think they are worth compared to what salaries are on offer.
11 Dec 09
Originally posted by kmax87My point is that the famous unemployment stat tells us more about peoples feelings of self worth than anything else.
Possibly, but if that lower paid job does not cover all your needs and saps your energy in the process how you going to be ready and available to land the job you need to have?
If people go through school being told they can land a good job, when they finish school, they won't accept just any old job - thus pushing up unemployment figures.
This makes any form of comparison between the 80's and now rather difficult as people expectations have changed for many reasons - ie unemployment figures are not just about the economy.
11 Dec 09
2 edits
Originally posted by twhiteheadThough if things were bad enough long enough, how long before people would have to pack in their expectations of job satisfaction and other such self indulgent mumbo jumbo and just put their shoulder to the wheel? If after some considerable period of time there was little likelihood that the vast majority could any longer afford to forestall the inevitable and get a job, then, if we continued to see a high unemployment figure, wouldn't that be a fairly robust indicator of a deeper economic malaise as opposed to the possibility that it was rather that job fulfillment criteria were not being met for prospective employment seekers?
My point is that the famous unemployment stat tells us more about peoples feelings of self worth than anything else.
If people go through school being told they can land a good job, when they finish school, they won't accept just any old job - thus pushing up unemployment figures.
This makes any form of comparison between the 80's and now rather difficu ...[text shortened]... ations have changed for many reasons - ie unemployment figures are not just about the economy.