Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 11:38
    For those who would like to eulogize him, now is your chance.

    How did John McCain make America better?
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Aug '18 12:21
    Originally posted by @whodey
    For those who would like to eulogize him, now is your chance.

    How did John McCain make America better?
    Millions of Americans still have health insurance because of his vote last summer.
  3. Behind the scenes
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    28 Aug '18 14:26
    Originally posted by @whodey
    For those who would like to eulogize him, now is your chance.

    How did John McCain make America better?
    Why don't you read some of McCain's biography, then you won't have to ask brainless questions like that here in the forums section. 😞
  4. Zugzwang
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    28 Aug '18 18:33
    Originally posted by @mchill to Whodey
    Why don't you read some of McCain's biography, then you won't have to ask brainless questions like that here in the forums section. 😞
    Americans have diverse views about John McCain. Not everyone hero-worships him.

    _Free Ride: John McCain and the Media_ by David Brock and Paul Waldman (2008)

    "We live in a gotcha media culture that revels in exposing the foibles and hypocrisies of our politicians.
    But one politician manages to escape this treatment, getting the benefit of the doubt and a
    positive spin for nearly everything he does: John McCain. Indeed, even during his temporary
    decline in popularity in 2007, the media continued to support him by lamenting his fate rather
    than criticizing the flip flops and politicking that undermined his popular image as a maverick.

    David Brock and Paul Waldman show how the media has enabled McCain's rise from the
    Keating Five scandal to the underdog hero of the 2000 primaries to his roller-coaster run
    for the 2008 nomination. They illuminate how the press falls for McCain's “straight talk”
    and how the Arizona senator gets away with inconsistencies and misrepresentations for
    which the media skewers other politicians. This is a fascinating study of how the media
    shape the political debate, and an essential book for every political junkie."
    --Amazon

    Should this book be censored or burned? (sarcasm)
  5. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 19:35
    Originally posted by @no1marauder
    Millions of Americans still have health insurance because of his vote last summer.
    The assumption is that had he repealed Obamacare none of those people would have medical care.

    So assuming that is true, it was a good thing to lie to voters and run on the premise of repealing Obamcare?

    Would you say it an honorable thing to do this?
  6. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 19:35
    Originally posted by @whodey
    For those who would like to eulogize him, now is your chance.

    How did John McCain make America better?
    He gave us Sarah Palin.

    OOPS !! Sorry. 😛
  7. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 19:43
    Originally posted by @mghrn55
    He gave us Sarah Palin.

    OOPS !! Sorry. 😛
    Alright, so McCain:

    1. Lied about repealing Obamacare and replacing it with something better
    2. Gave us Sarah Palin

    Anyone else?
  8. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 19:46
    I remember starting a similar thread about Hillary. What on earth did she do that was so great other than marry well to a successful career politician?

    Had she not married Bill, her political career would have gone no where.

    But because of who she was and the resources and connections available to her, she became a Congressman. Well what did she accomplish there other than having a stepping stone to the White House?

    Then she became Secretary of State where she oversaw Benghazi and Syria.

    Was this why she was so qualified to become President? If so, what did she do in these roles to prove herself?

    And the same can be said for the GOP. The Bush clan would never have seen the light of day had Reagan not appointed one as VP. They rode the coat tails of Reagan's popularity into the Oval Office on three different occasions, and almost destroyed the GOP in the process.

    I guess what I'm saying is, perhaps we should start choosing leaders who have earned the right instead of it being their turn.
  9. Zugzwang
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    28 Aug '18 20:291 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I remember starting a similar thread about Hillary. What on earth did she do that was so great other than marry well to a successful career politician?

    Had she not married Bill, her political career would have gone no where.

    But because of who she was and the resources and connections available to her, she became a Congressman. Well what did she acco ...[text shortened]... rhaps we should start choosing leaders who have earned the right instead of it being their turn.
    "Had she [Hillary Rodham] not married Bill [Clinton], her political career would have gone no where."
    --Whodey

    What a sexist presumption! Hillary Rodham has significant achievements of her own.
    It may be true that she would not likely have become the Democratic nominee for President
    if she were not married to a former President, yet she could have succeeded in other ways.

    Hillary Rodham Clinton is not the political equivalent of Lurleen Burns Wallace, who was
    elected as Alabama's governor because she was married to Alabama's previous governor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lurleen_Wallace

    "Lurleen Burns Wallace ... was the 46th Governor of Alabama for fifteen months from January 1967
    until her death in May 1968. She was the first wife of Alabama Governor George Wallace,
    whom she succeeded as governor because the Alabama constitution forbade consecutive terms."
  10. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Aug '18 20:361 edit
    Originally posted by @whodey
    The assumption is that had he repealed Obamacare none of those people would have medical care.

    So assuming that is true, it was a good thing to lie to voters and run on the premise of repealing Obamcare?

    Would you say it an honorable thing to do this?
    Facts are facts, since the ACA was passed:

    In 2016, there were 28.6 million Americans without health insurance, down from more than 48 million in 2010. Some 12.4 percent of adults aged 18 to 24 were uninsured, 69.2 percent were covered by private plans and 20 percent had public coverage.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/health/obamacare-health-insurance-numbers-nchs.html

    Your question was how did he make America better not whether he should have kept a campaign promise that would have damaged 20 million people, likely causing the deaths of perhaps tens of thousands of them (in the other thread, you recognized that denying medical care for long periods causes people to die; did you forgot that?).
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    28 Aug '18 20:43
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I remember starting a similar thread about Hillary. What on earth did she do that was so great other than marry well to a successful career politician?

    Had she not married Bill, her political career would have gone no where.

    But because of who she was and the resources and connections available to her, she became a Congressman. Well what did she acco ...[text shortened]... rhaps we should start choosing leaders who have earned the right instead of it being their turn.
    Jesus, you are so ignorant of US history. George H.W. Bush was hardly some unknown who Reagan elevated into prominence; he had been the US Ambassador to the UN and to China, Chairman of the RNC AND Director of the CIA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush
  12. SubscriberSuzianne
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    28 Aug '18 20:45
    Originally posted by @whodey
    I remember starting a similar thread about Hillary. What on earth did she do that was so great other than marry well to a successful career politician?

    Had she not married Bill, her political career would have gone no where.

    But because of who she was and the resources and connections available to her, she became a Congressman. Well what did she acco ...[text shortened]... rhaps we should start choosing leaders who have earned the right instead of it being their turn.
    Still onboard with the HDS, I see.
  13. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 21:25
    Originally posted by @whodey
    Alright, so McCain:

    1. Lied about repealing Obamacare and replacing it with something better
    2. Gave us Sarah Palin

    Anyone else?
    Replacing Obamacare with something better ?
    What was better ?

    Maybe McCain didn't vote for the repeal because what was waiting in the wings was much worse.

    And he saw that Trump's motivation for repealing Obamacare was about tearing down anything attached to Obama's legacy.
    Not about providing a health care system.

    Running a $20T economy to settle personal scores is a lousy way to run a country.

    So yes. McCain gave us Sarah Palin.
    But you can take (1) and park it somewhere.
  14. Joined
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    28 Aug '18 23:29
    Here is an excerpt from the link below:

    "The 1969 North Vietnamese radio broadcast has never been heard in the United States of America. In fact, there has never been any knowledge that such a recording existed. The audio recording was found in a misplaced file in the National Archives in Washington, D.C. The broadcast was recorded by the Foreign Broadcast Information Service, a branch of the CIA that monitored international shortwave and foreign radio broadcasts.

    Lt. Commander John McCain was shot down over Hanoi by a North Vietnamese missile while flying his 23rd bombing mission. Both of his arms and one leg were broken. He was pulled ashore by North Vietnamese who took him to a prison known by POWs as the “Hanoi Hilton.”

    McCain was a prisoner of war for five and a half years. He was released on March 14, 1973, and returned to the United States of America as a war hero. His POW legacy propelled McCain to victory in a race for a U.S. Congressional seat in Arizona in 1982. He replaced Barry Goldwater in the Senate in 1986.

    In the propaganda recording, Lt. Commander McCain said he was “guilty of crimes against the Vietnamese country and people.” He confessed that he bombed “their cities, towns, and villages and caused many injuries, even deaths, for the people of Vietnam.”

    He praised the medical care and kindness of his communist captors even though he came to North Vietnam as “an aggressor.” McCain said he wished to express his “deep gratitude” for their “kind treatment” and that he “will never forget” the kindness extended to him by the communist North Vietnamese."

    https://www.trunews.com/article/john-mccains-1969-tokyo-rose-propaganda-recording-released
  15. SubscriberWOLFE63
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    28 Aug '18 23:573 edits
    Originally posted by @metal-brain
    Here is an excerpt from the link below:

    "The 1969 North Vietnamese radio broadcast has never been heard in the United States of America. In fact, there has never been any knowledge that such a recording existed. The audio recording was found in a misplaced file in the National Archives in Washington, D.C. The broadcast was recorded by the Foreign Bro ...[text shortened]... ."

    https://www.trunews.com/article/john-mccains-1969-tokyo-rose-propaganda-recording-released
    After five and a half years of isolation, torture and beatings...as he did admit...he was finally compelled to crack.

    Although, he was offered an earlier release, because of his father's position as Admiral, he refused, so as not to give the North Vietnamese a propaganda victory.

    How long would you last? Likely, less than 5 and a half minutes.

    You've probably never served in the military...and most certainly not in combat. If you did, it's your reprehensible lot, lying know-it-alls and loudmouths that castigated Bill Clinton for deferment because of his Rhodes Scholarship. And were also responsible for "swift-boating" John Kerry's decorated combat service.

    Yet, you hypocritical sons of bytches are going full out in support of this current pretender-in-chief: You're a disgrace.

    You shouldn't wonder why nobody takes your worthless opinions seriously.
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