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  1. 10 Jul '15 04:15 / 4 edits
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2015/0709/Remains-of-Confederate-general-and-KKK-leader-no-longer-welcome-in-historic-park

    On Tuesday, the Memphis City Council unanimously approved a resolution to move the remains of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest and his wife from Health Sciences Park.

    Gen. Forrest is a popular yet highly controversial figure. After the Civil War, he served as the first leader or “grand wizard” of the Ku Klux Klan when it formed in 1866.

    State officials across the country have been calling for the eradication of Confederate symbols, icons, and monuments from key sites in recent weeks. Yet if the council’s plan goes through, it would be the first attempt to disinter the corpse of a Confederate leader as a symbolic gesture to denounce Dixie’s white-supremacist history.

    “What we’ve done here in Memphis is no different from what’s happening across the country,” said Myron Lowery, chairman of the City Council, referring to the recent movement to eliminate the Confederate battle flag and monuments from courthouses and other historic sites. “I think it’s time to remove symbols of racism and bigotry,” Councilman Lowery told the Monitor.

    Lowery says he made the proposal to move the remains after 21-year old Dylan Roof was charged with murdering nine parishioners at the predominantly black Emanuel AME Church in June. Photos of Roof posing with the Civil War-era flag surfaced online after the shooting, igniting a national dispute over state-sanctioned Confederate symbols.

    Memphis City Council members are now also working to remove Forrest’s statue from the park.

    "The Forrest family is solidly opposed to digging up the graves and moving them any place," said Lee Millar of the Sons Of Confederate Veterans, a hereditary organization for male descendants of Confederate soldiers.

    "This appears to me to be another knee jerk reaction to that anti-Confederate hysteria,” Mr. Millar told a local Memphis paper. “Some people here are trying to get on the bandwagon in erasing Confederate history and it's just wrong.”

    While the statue of the Confederate general in Health Sciences Park is still standing, Lowery is hopeful that will change soon. After Tennessee saw a bipartisan call to remove a bust of Forrest from its Senate chamber alcove, he says, “We feel that we have support from the state."

    Forrest’s remains were in Elmwood Cemetery before they were moved to the Health Sciences Park in the early 19th century. The park was originally dubbed Forrest Park. But in 2013, officials renamed it along with other parks named to honor Confederates.

    The cemetery said it would accept the graves of Forrest and his wife, Mary Ann Montgomery, but nothing is set in stone just yet. “It’s not a done deal,” Lowery says.

    The city council’s decision is one of many recent efforts to change the face of the southern states.

    US Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell (R) of Kentucky has called to evict a statue of Confederate President Jefferson Davis from the Kentucky statehouse rotunda. Senate minority leader Harry Reid (D) of Nevada said “it would be important that we look at some of the Confederate statues positioned in the Capitol rotunda in Washington.”

    Kenneth Janken, a University of North Carolina historian, discussed the post-Charleston shift in thinking among both liberals and conservatives in a recent interview with The Christian Science Monitor. “Things can be reversed, they can be revoked,” he said.

    “Compared to 1898, people now have a more broadly democratic idea of how power should be exercised. Why should that not be reflected in the monuments you choose to have, or the monuments you choose to retire?”
  2. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    10 Jul '15 06:57
    Originally posted by whodey
    http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/USA-Update/2015/0709/Remains-of-Confederate-general-and-KKK-leader-no-longer-welcome-in-historic-park

    On Tuesday, the Memphis City Council unanimously approved a resolution to move the remains of Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest and his wife from Health Sciences Park.

    Gen. Forrest is a popular yet highly controver ...[text shortened]... at not be reflected in the monuments you choose to have, or the monuments you choose to retire?”
    Nathan Bedford Forrest should have been hung as a war criminal for the murder of Black US soldiers at Fort Pillow after they had surrendered. Any monument to him is a disgrace,
  3. 10 Jul '15 10:40 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Nathan Bedford Forrest should have been hung as a war criminal for the murder of Black US soldiers at Fort Pillow after they had surrendered. Any monument to him is a disgrace,
    So he should be dug up and put where?

    Should they flush his remains down a toilet?

    Also, do you view such things as drone strikes on American citizens who have not been tried in a court of law a war crime? If so, should we dig up Obama's grave as well? In fact, what about men like "W"? Don't you believe he lied about going to war, thus killing thousands of American lives and countless Iraqi lives? Should we then dig up his grave someday and defecate on it as well?

    And lastly, do you think that digging up this man's grave and removing his memorial will help people today? Will it help end racism and bigotry? Is opening up old wounds seen by the left as a way to finally clean an open wound so it will heal properly?
  4. 10 Jul '15 11:03 / 1 edit
    This issue raises some interesting questions regarding the rights of dead people

    Should they have rights? Do some have a right to rest in peace but not others?

    More importantly, does the left even have any inkling as to the wounds they are opening up and the trouble that they may inflict on themselves in the near future?

    Then again, I'm sure they can hold power indefinitely in the federal government, so they should have nothing to worry about.
  5. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    10 Jul '15 12:18
    Originally posted by whodey
    So he should be dug up and put where?

    Should they flush his remains down a toilet?

    Also, do you view such things as drone strikes on American citizens who have not been tried in a court of law a war crime? If so, should we dig up Obama's grave as well? In fact, what about men like "W"? Don't you believe he lied about going to war, thus killing thousa ...[text shortened]... up old wounds seen by the left as a way to finally clean an open wound so it will heal properly?
    Apparently he was already dug up once to be placed in a semi-shrine on public land.

    The rest is your usual hysterical BS and isn't worth responding to.
  6. 10 Jul '15 15:47
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Apparently he was already dug up once to be placed in a semi-shrine on public land.

    The rest is your usual hysterical BS and isn't worth responding to.
    Should the Jefferson memorial be removed because he owned slaves?

    Some think so.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-23/cnn-goes-there-asks-if-thomas-jefferson-memorials-should-be-removed-because-he-owned
  7. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    10 Jul '15 15:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    So he should be dug up and put where?

    Should they flush his remains down a toilet?

    Also, do you view such things as drone strikes on American citizens who have not been tried in a court of law a war crime? If so, should we dig up Obama's grave as well? In fact, what about men like "W"? Don't you believe he lied about going to war, thus killing thousa ...[text shortened]... up old wounds seen by the left as a way to finally clean an open wound so it will heal properly?
    Should they flush his remains down a toilet?
    YES!!!
  8. 10 Jul '15 16:19
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    [b]Should they flush his remains down a toilet?
    YES!!![/b]
    We should flush "W" down the toilet?
  9. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    10 Jul '15 16:20
    Originally posted by whodey
    We should flush "W" down the toilet?
    Does W stand for Whodey?
  10. 10 Jul '15 16:25 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    Does W stand for Whodey?
    BUSH Jr.

    Did you say he should be flushed down the toilet for his war crimes?

    You are left winged enough to believe he is a war criminal.
  11. Subscriber KingDavid403
    King David
    10 Jul '15 16:34 / 5 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    BUSH Jr.

    Did you say he should be flushed down the toilet for his war crimes?

    You are left winged enough to believe he is a war criminal.
    I am not left-wing or right-wing. I am a moderate who votes for truth to the best of my knowledge. I do not think there should be a statue of W anywhere, that's for sure... War crimes? That is debatable. He made some wrong decisions that is for sure. Along with the rest of our government at the time. The problem was they listened to the CIA who lied.
  12. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    10 Jul '15 16:48
    Originally posted by whodey
    Should the Jefferson memorial be removed because he owned slaves?

    Some think so.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-23/cnn-goes-there-asks-if-thomas-jefferson-memorials-should-be-removed-because-he-owned
    Jefferson, for all his faults, was an important Founder and a great President.

    Nathan Bedford Forrest's only real claims to fame is his military record in treasonous service against the USA which included the most shocking war crime of the Civil War and as the founder of the KKK.

    See the apple, see the orange.
  13. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    10 Jul '15 20:40
    Originally posted by KingDavid403
    I am not left-wing or right-wing. I am a moderate who votes for truth to the best of my knowledge. I do not think there should be a statue of W anywhere, that's for sure... War crimes? That is debatable. He made some wrong decisions that is for sure. Along with the rest of our government at the time. The problem was they listened to the CIA who lied.
    It is never the King's fault, always those terrible advisers.
  14. 10 Jul '15 22:22 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by no1marauder to Whodey
    Nathan Bedford Forrest should have been hung as a war criminal for the murder of Black US soldiers at Fort Pillow after they had surrendered.
    Any monument to him is a disgrace,
    In fairness to Nathan Bedford Forrest (though he had become wealthy as a slave trader),
    there remains historical dispute about the extent of his responsibility for the Fort Pillow Massacre.
    While many of his defenders may be dismissed as neo-Confederate apologists, I am
    not yet convinced that all his defenders must be motivated by bias toward the CSA.
    And it seems to me that executing someone should require a high standard of proof.

    This may not be an exact analogy, but Jochen Peiper, a German Waffen-SS officer,
    was generally blamed for the massacre of American POWs at Malmedy, Belgium in 1944.
    Jochen Peiper was originally condemned to death; then his sentence was commuted
    to life imprisonment. (The Americans had tortured some Germans into making confessions).
    Jochen Peiper was released after serving 11+ years in prison.

    The most authoritative study of the massacre was recently completed by Danny Parker,
    an American historian (specializing in the Battle of the Bulge), who's far from being pro-Nazi.
    He concluded that the Malmedy Massacre was very probably ordered by another Waffen-SS
    officer, who did not survive the war. Jochen Peiper was not present at the massacre.
    While Peiper may have condoned the massacre when he found out about it later, that
    does not seem to be a sufficient basis to condemn him to death for alleged mass murder.
    Again, I am *not necessarily* comparing the cases of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Jochen Peiper.
  15. Standard member st dominics preview
    troll taunter
    10 Jul '15 22:29
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    [b]In fairness to Nathan Bedford Forrest (though he had become wealthy as a slave trader),
    there remains historical dispute about the extent of his responsibility for the Fort Pillow Massacre.
    While many of his defenders may be dismissed as neo-Confederate apologists, I am
    not yet convinced that all his defenders must be motivated by bias toward the CSA.
    And it seems to me that executing someone should require a high standard of proof.
    Duchess ~ I think we agree on something. My understanding is that the 'Fort Pillow Massacre' is shrouded in doubt as to whether the Union forces had officially surrendered or not.