Originally posted by MelanerpesAgreed, he should do that. But the point of raising his thoughts along the lines I started with is to recognize how powerful the man is now.
Perhaps we need to stop asking why there's so much war and fighting - and instead ask why, in a world with 6Bill+ people, there is actually so LITTLE war and fighting? Nobody writes news stories about all those places where everything is functioning smoothly.
There are lots of places where people from differing backgrounds and ideologies find a way to ...[text shortened]... into how it is that almost all humans are able to overcome the polarization and live in peace.
what are the consequences of this kind of outlook given that power?
Originally posted by Palynkatry Real Clear Politics -- good mix of different views, even though the webmaster has a clear bias in favor of the conservatives.
I think the internet can be even worse, because you can direct where to search. Of course, it takes an even higher degree of self-control to read sites you disagree with, so you'll keep coming back to the places where you only validate your preconceptions.
Forums are a nice exception, though.
I like to know what all sides of a debate have invested. For example, I knew that Obama would propose consolidating the only two banking agencies that fall in both House and Senate under a single committee's jurisidiction. To propose consolidating agencies that have congressional oversight in different committees means senators and congressmen on at least one committee in each house would lose some significant juice -- and the fight wasn't worth it. The same thing happens inside a regulatory agency. Very hard to wrest one group from another unless there is some sort of understanding reached before the head of each department takes office.
This is a fireplug town. Nothing matters so much as which dog gets to pee on it.
Turf is all.
Originally posted by ScriabinI wasn't talking about myself, but thanks anyway.
try Real Clear Politics -- good mix of different views, even though the webmaster has a clear bias in favor of the conservatives.
I like to know what all sides of a debate have invested. For example, I knew that Obama would propose consolidating the only two banking agencies that fall in both House and Senate under a single committee's jurisidiction. T ...[text shortened]... is is a fireplug town. Nothing matters so much as which dog gets to pee on it.
Turf is all.
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Originally posted by ScriabinTonnes. My current job requires negotiating on everything I do.
how much negotiating have you done?
when you buy a car, for example, and you agree to pay more than you first offered to pay, do you believe that is always a "certain retreat" from your initial position?
You aren't being honest in your question. You overlook the fact that your first offer is not what you believe to be fair value for the vehicle. In fact, your first "offer" isn't really an offer at all.
To make your example better, you would have to agree to pay more than what you are prepared to pay in order for a "compromise" to be reached between you and the dealer. This would definitely require a "certain retreat" from your initial position.
Originally posted by PalynkaFunny, you always seem to get confused when i give you a 0 or 1 question to answer. It's very hard to give straight answers when those answers disprove your argument, isn't it?
uzless is a binary thinker. In his arguments with me he always expects 0 or 1 and gets confused when I give him an answer in terms of a probability distribution.
Originally posted by ScriabinI think YOU trivialize the point being made. This issue of human intransegence has been debated, at length, since the time of the greeks and the romans. It has been argued back and forth for centuries.
this is a trivial point
Framing the debate in a modern perspective, while novel, does not make it revelatory.
What has been, always will be....
Originally posted by ScriabinStop watching american tv. You should have figured that one out the first day Foxnews went on the air.
I was overjoyed to hear him say this. I thereupon resolved finally to cut my cable TV subscription to the bare minimum needed for this internet connection and a few HD channels I can't get over the air using an Apple EyeTV.
There really is no more news as I understand the term on TV.
Not only newspapers, but journalism as I practiced it for many years before joining government is dying.
The heady days of CBSnews are long gone.
Originally posted by MelanerpesBe careful what you ask for. If you are looking for causes of Peace, you first need to understand the causes of war.
Perhaps we need to stop asking why there's so much war and fighting - and instead ask why, in a world with 6Bill+ people, there is actually so LITTLE war and fighting? Nobody writes news stories about all those places where everything is functioning smoothly.
There are lots of places where people from differing backgrounds and ideologies find a way to ...[text shortened]... into how it is that almost all humans are able to overcome the polarization and live in peace.
You will find a bunch of string pulling behind war. Wars just don't happen. They are either caused to happen or are allowed to happen. Peace is the absense of these two causes.
Originally posted by uzlessyou miss the point
I think YOU trivialize the point being made. This issue of human intransegence has been debated, at length, since the time of the greeks and the romans. It has been argued back and forth for centuries.
Framing the debate in a modern perspective, while novel, does not make it revelatory.
What has been, always will be....
has anyone professing this idea been in such a position to exercise power of the US federal government's regulatory apparatus?
you make the same mistake FMF does -- because you ingnore the context given and react only to that with which you are familiar.
tiny minds ....
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Originally posted by uzlessso inflexible -- one wonders how you manage with a take it or leave it attitude. perhaps getting to yes isn't all that appealing to you.
Tonnes. My current job requires negotiating on everything I do.
You aren't being honest in your question. You overlook the fact that your first offer is not what you believe to be fair value for the vehicle. In fact, your first "offer" isn't really an offer at all.
To make your example better, you would have to agree to pay more than what you are p e dealer. This would definitely require a "certain retreat" from your initial position.
I disagree with your outlook because it is unnecessarily negative.
I agree with, for example, Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.) chair of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, which voted 15-8 to approve a sweeping energy bill today after months of work, sending the measure to the Senate floor. The Senator summed it up nicely in a way that shows why you are forever doomed to the most minor of leagues:
Bingaman said:
"None of us approve of every provision, none of us got everything that we wanted," Bingaman said. "The end product, I believe, is a solid piece of work. It is one which will help not only to enable us to produce new sources of energy, but to use our energy sources wisely and more efficiently."
Sen. Landrieu (D.LA), who opposed the measure, told Bingaman before the vote:
"There have been things that you didn't like, there have been things that I haven't liked. But if any of us in this body can find one bill that we think is a perfect piece of legislation, I can find 99 other members who will fight you on that. Despite all the warts that are contained in this legislation, I think we are at a worthwhile place in the process."
I don't expect you to understand. It would cause your ego too much harm, fragile as it is, to do anything other than to insist against all the world's evidence that you are, in the end, absolutely right. Always.
And that is what makes you another one on these boards who is a complete drag. why don't you and FMF go off and start a club?
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Originally posted by uzlessYou will also find a bunch of string pulling behind peace - peace doesn't "just happen".
Be careful what you ask for. If you are looking for causes of Peace, you first need to understand the causes of war.
You will find a bunch of string pulling behind war. Wars just don't happen. They are either caused to happen or are allowed to happen. Peace is the absense of these two causes.
You often see conflicts develop among different groups of people who want very different things and tensions build. But these different groups usually find a way to resolve their differences peacefully because war causes so many bad things, even for the eventual victors.
The study of how groups of people AVOID wars is at least as complex as the study of how people create wars. The American civil rights movement is a major case in point. Here you had a HUGE conflict that very well could have led to a war or some form of long term, widespread violence. But a lot of strings needed to be pulled in a lot of interesting ways to resolve the matter with minimal violence. We did see all those riots in the late 60s, but this conflict could have been a lot worse.
I do agree that we need to study wars and what triggers them - but I don't think there are too many wars that have been understudied. And when all you look at are the wars, you come away with a very pessimistic view of mankind's ability to get along.
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Originally posted by daniel58Yes - study the wars, but don't limit the study to war -- look at those times when there isn't war and ask what is preventing war from occurring?
Studying war is the only way you can find peace. Because if you don't know how wars start then how can you prevent them? Plus pessimistic about wars is good because they cause so much suffering to the innocent
A good illustration might be Iraq. Before America went in and removed Saddam, there was no war there even though you had Sunnis and Shiites there who didn't trust or like each other very much. In this case, it was mainly because Saddam was using his harshly repressive policies to maintain the status quo.
This illustration also shows that a particular peaceful situation isn't always an ideal situation or even a good one.