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Originally posted by FMF…Why force him to delay the start of his career in physics until he is sixteen years old?
Why force him to delay the start of his career in physics until he is sixteen years old?
Why force him to do anything other than physics while he is at school?
While we're at it, why isn't he paid to study physics in secondary school?
Why force him to do anything other than physics while he is at school?
..…
Exactly how does these questions relate to any of my assertions?
I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that isn't part of any education.
….While we're at it, why isn't he paid to study physics in secondary school?..…
Because educating him is done for free for HIS benefit.
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonIf that's the way you define the purpose and benefit of youth community service then you and I have lived very different lives. Apparently it isn't possible for us to discuss this.
Exactly how does these questions relate to any of my assertions?
I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that isn't part of any education.
…FMF .While we're at it, why isn't he paid to study physics in secondary school?
You: Because educating him is done for free for HIS benefit.
Youth community service is for the benefit of youth and this part of a youth's education and training is organized and provided for free too. In the long run, 50 hours of work experience and personal development for a youth on the threshhold of adulthood is undoubtedly of more benfit to them than 50 hours of physics instruction at the 15-16 year old level.
"Forced unpaid labour"? This is an intellectual gusset shot on your part!
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Originally posted by FMF…If that's the way YOU define the purpose and benefit of youth community service
If that's the way you define the purpose and benefit of youth community service then you and I have lived very different lives. Apparently it isn't possible for us to discuss this.
[b]…FMF .While we're at it, why isn't he paid to study physics in secondary school?
You: Because educating him is done for free for HIS benefit.
Youth community service is r old level.
"Forced unpaid labour"? This is an intellectual gusset shot on your part![/b]
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Err, where did I say that?
….Youth community service is for the benefit of youth and this part of a youth's education
..…
Yes that is generally correct; it usually is, and I am not against it when it IS really part of their education nor did I say otherwise -read my posts again. Reminder of what I said:
“…I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that ISN’T part of any education.” (my emphasis)
-note the word “ISN’T” as in "is NOT" in the above.
if you read my other posts before this one you will see that this is what I have been saying.
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonI have been reading your posts. You seem to be under the impression that if I don't agree with you then it means I don't understand you. I am also beginning to suspect that you do not fully understand the meaning of your own words.
if you read my other posts before this one you will see that this is what I have been saying.
Here:
“…I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that ISN’T part of any education.” Your words, yes?
In that sentence you offer a kind of definition of "youth community service". It is this: "forced unpaid labour that ISN’T part of any education".
You seem to emphasize that this youth community service is not part of education when you say: "I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education."
I completely disagree with you. Youth community service IS a part of education. To me "education" is far more than just things like "physics". although "physics" is clearly a part of "education".
Education and training includes things like "youth community service". You choose to describe this youth community service scheme as "forced unpaid labour". I think this is facile. I also contend that it is narrow-minded in the extreme about the aims and purposes and substance of a genuinely holistic education for youth.
I understand very well what you are saying and what you think. You have been absolutely clear. However I disagree with you.
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Originally posted by FMF…Here:
I have been reading your posts. You seem to be under the impression that if I don't agree with you then it means I don't understand you. I am also beginning to suspect that you do not fully understand the meaning of your own words.
Here:
[b]“…I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that ISN’T part of a what you think. You have been absolutely clear. However I disagree with you.
“…I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education but rather forced unpaid labour that ISN’T part of any education.” Your words, yes?
In that sentence you offer a kind of definition of "youth community service".
..…[/b]
Nope; where in that sentence do I mention "youth community service"?
….You seem to emphasize that this youth community service is not part of education when you say: "I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education."
..…
How does:
1 “I keep trying to tell you that I wasn’t talking about education."
Imply:
2 “youth community service is not part of education”
?
….I completely disagree with you. Youth community service IS a part of education.
…
I said community service CAN be and USUALLY IS a part of education:
Reminder of part of my previous posts:
…. ….Youth community service is for the benefit of youth and this part of a youth's education (your comment)
..…
Yes that is generally correct; it USUALLY IS, and I am not against it when it IS really part of their education nor did I say otherwise . …(my comment with emphasis)
…
Note the words “USUALLY IS” in the above -I am CLEARLY NOT saying that Youth community service cannot be part of education so stop putting words in my mouth!
I challenge you to show where I said that youth community service cannot be part of education!
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Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonPlease. You're being obtuse. You have repeatedly claimed that THIS youth community service scheme we are discussing is not a credible part of the "education" of youth. I understand your position. But even the rabidly anti-Labour Daily Telegraph admits that, in this scheme, "...the work - which could include helping out charities in the UK and abroad - is likely to become part of the National Curriculum. It would be integrated into moves to make everyone stay in education or training until the age of 18 by 2011." You rather hysterically choose to describe it as "forced unpaid labour that isn't part of any education". It is, regardless of your outrage, and whether you like it or not, a "youth community service scheme". Presumably you know what the U.K.'s National Curriculum is?
Note the words “USUALLY IS” in the above -I am CLEARLY NOT saying that Youth community service cannot be part of education so stop putting words in my mouth!
I challenge you to show where I said that youth community service cannot be part of education!