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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    29 Aug '18 20:08
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/birthright-citizenship-privilege-canada-america-policy

    "Is citizenship of the country you are born in an absurd privilege?
    Canada and the US are debating their policy. Perhaps it is ridiculous that 10 million
    people in the world are stateless while so many of us take our citizenship for granted."

    "Should you automatically have a right to citizenship of the country in
    which you are born, regardless of where your parents are from?

    Most governments around the world would answer “no”. Jus soli, also
    known as birthright citizenship, is not terribly common these days.
    In the UK, for example, anyone born in the country after 1983 only becomes
    a citizen if a parent is a British citizen or is “settled” (ie has permanent residency)
    in the UK at the time of birth. Similar provisions operate across Europe.
    By contrast, the US and Canada grant automatic citizenship to anyone
    born on their soil."

    Not quite. There are exceptions, such as for children of foreign diplomats.
    "A person born in the United States to a foreign diplomatic officer accredited
    to the United States is not subject to the jurisdiction of United States law.
    Therefore, that person cannot be considered a U.S. citizen at birth
    under the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution."

    "But the North American embrace of birthright citizenship may not have much of a future."

    "It is absurd that being born within the geographical limits of the US confers
    you incredible freedom of movement, whereas being born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."
  2. Joined
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    29 Aug '18 21:37
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/birthright-citizenship-privilege-canada-america-policy

    "Is citizenship of the country you are born in an absurd privilege?
    Canada and the US are debating their policy. Perhaps it is ridiculous that 10 million
    people in the world are stateless while so many of us take our citizenship for granted." ...[text shortened]... born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."
    Countries should have the right to determine who is a citizen and there should be no automatic carve out simply because someone is born in a certain location.
  3. Subscribermoonbus
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    29 Aug '18 22:102 edits
    Originally posted by @quackquack
    Countries should have the right to determine who is a citizen and there should be no automatic carve out simply because someone is born in a certain location.
    Every state determines its own rules for citizenship. Some by location, some by parentage. Just as every state determines its own rules for naturalization.

    There is an obvious reason why citizenship in the USA is determined by location and not parentage: the settlers of the original 13 colonies were British, so their children would have been British subjects, until the revolution.

    Of course, there are exceptions: children born abroad of US citizens 'inherit' their parents' citizenship. There are exceptions to the exceptions, too: children from some third country adopted by American citizens living abroad do not automatically 'inherit' American citizenship, only biological children do. Go figure.
  4. Zugzwang
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    29 Aug '18 22:181 edit
    Originally posted by @quackquack
    Countries should have the right to determine who is a citizen and there should
    be no automatic carve out simply because someone is born in a certain location.
    Would Quackquack object if Zimbabwe decided that all white people born there were not citizens?
  5. Zugzwang
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    29 Aug '18 22:231 edit
    Originally posted by @moonbus
    Every state determines its own rules for citizenship. Some by location, some by parentage. Just as every state determines its own rules for naturalization.

    There is an obvious reason why citizenship in the USA is determined by location and not parentage: the settlers of the original 13 colonies were British, so their children would have been British subj ...[text shortened]... oad do not automatically 'inherit' American citizenship, only biological children do. Go figure.
    "Children born abroad of US citizens 'inherit' their parents' citizenship."
    --Moonbus

    Edward Said was born in 1935 in Jerusalem, Palestine. His father was a US citizen.
    A friend of his (and mine) said that Edward Said had to spend enough time living in the
    USA before a certain date (reaching legal adulthood?) before his US citizenship was confirmed.
  6. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Aug '18 01:04
    Originally posted by @quackquack
    Countries should have the right to determine who is a citizen and there should be no automatic carve out simply because someone is born in a certain location.
    I totally disagree.

    Obviously, I reckon everyone can live wherever the hell they want and that nationalities are a hideous reminder of how stupid humanity can be.

    That being said, surely the core basis of what country you are a slave to, is the country you are born in?

    What you are seriously suggesting is that it’s possible for 2 people who have never been outside country A to have a child in country A and that said child can’t be ‘from country A’.

    In the Netherlands we have 12 year old kids who were born here and because their parents don’t have passports, have never been outside of the Netherlands... they only speak Dutch.. and the government wants to deport them to ‘safe’ countries like Iraq.

    What the hell is that all about?
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    30 Aug '18 02:16
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "It is absurd that being born within the geographical limits of the US confers
    you incredible freedom of movement, whereas being born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."
    Next time just deliver the punchline already without dragging us through the miasma of your mind.
  8. Subscribermoonbus
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    30 Aug '18 04:47
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    "Children born abroad of US citizens 'inherit' their parents' citizenship."
    --Moonbus

    Edward Said was born in 1935 in Jerusalem, Palestine. His father was a US citizen.
    A friend of his (and mine) said that Edward Said had to spend enough time living in the
    USA before a certain date (reaching legal adulthood?) before his US citizenship was confirmed.
    A) having only one American parent might not be sufficient to obtain American citizenship.

    B) the law may have changed since 1935.
  9. Stargazing
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    30 Aug '18 05:491 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/birthright-citizenship-privilege-canada-america-policy

    "Is citizenship of the country you are born in an absurd privilege?
    Canada and the US are debating their policy. Perhaps it is ridiculous that 10 million
    people in the world are stateless while so many of us take our citizenship for granted." ...[text shortened]... born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."
    In the Guardian today...

    Let’s do away with national boarders, citizenship per se, national identity, income tax, national insurance. Why pay tax at all, it’s also an absurd idea to pay money to a “national” government to whom you are not accountable through any traceable process. Perhaps tax should be run like a charity whereby people just pay on a humanitarian need basis, this will prevent people from having the need to be tax exiles as there will be nothing to be exiled from.

    Furthermore the idea of a boundary protecting personal wealth is disgusting; so let’s do away with bank accounts and everyone just pay all their filthy wonga into one massive pot which is held somewhere outside of all national boarders and banks, maybe in a cave in the Himalayas, and everyone gets an equal stipend which will be for food and fresh mud to line the walls of their hut.
  10. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Aug '18 06:04
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    In the Guardian today...

    Let’s do away with national boarders, citizenship per se, national identity, income tax, national insurance. Why pay tax at all, it’s also an absurd idea to pay money to a “national” government to whom you are not accountable through any traceable process. Perhaps tax should be run like a charity whereby people just pay on a ...[text shortened]... ryone gets an equal stipend which will be for food and fresh mud to line the walls of their hut.
    Wise words!
  11. Stargazing
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    30 Aug '18 06:04
    Afterthought...

    If America is such a shlthole of racism and injustice, how come the Guardian et all gets all bent out of shape over people not getting citizenship of it.

    If America wasn’t a “nation” with territorial, social and economic boundaries it wouldn’t be “America” and no one would want to have free movement rights to live there. People want to live there because it is a wealthy nation. It’s a “nation” because it has national borders. If you have nothing of value to offer a “nation” into which you wish to enter and enjoy the benefits of living there, other than your own personal cheap labour, then don’t be surprised when that’s what you get. Cheaply paid labour. It’s called economics.

    Destroying an economic model in the name of social injustice or even charity is simply anarchy.
  12. Stargazing
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    30 Aug '18 06:05
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Wise words!
    Thanks bro.
  13. Standard membershavixmir
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    30 Aug '18 15:44
    Originally posted by @divegeester
    Afterthought...

    If America is such a shlthole of racism and injustice, how come the Guardian et all gets all bent out of shape over people not getting citizenship of it.

    If America wasn’t a “nation” with territorial, social and economic boundaries it wouldn’t be “America” and no one would want to have free movement rights to live there. People wa ...[text shortened]...
    Destroying an economic model in the name of social injustice or even charity is simply anarchy.
    Borders are institutions put in place to serve the wealthy and the rich.
  14. Stargazing
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    30 Aug '18 15:54
    Originally posted by @shavixmir
    Borders are institutions put in place to serve the wealthy and the rich.
    They serve the nation as a whole.

    btw the wealth are the rich 😛
  15. Behind the scenes
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    30 Aug '18 17:031 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/29/birthright-citizenship-privilege-canada-america-policy

    "Is citizenship of the country you are born in an absurd privilege?
    Canada and the US are debating their policy. Perhaps it is ridiculous that 10 million
    people in the world are stateless while so many of us take our citizenship for granted." ...[text shortened]... born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."
    "It is absurd that being born within the geographical limits of the US confers you incredible freedom of movement, whereas being born within the geographical limits of, say, Gaza, ensures that travel is a constant nightmare."



    This is clearly the fault of white males in America, who are no doubt to blame for earthquakes, hurricanes, racism, sexism cancer and every other calamity to hit planet earth. 😲


    Duchess - The racist, sexist troll Mchill shows his abysmal reading comprehension by attacking me at every opportunity and shows his extreme stupidity...yada...yada...yada 😴
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