11 Aug 09
1 edit
Pelosi was not talking about people who have a coherent concern or criticisim. She was referring to the hooligans who show up at the town meetings and scream and shout continually in hopes of drowning out any rational efforts to discuss the healthcare bill.
I agree - this sort of thing is very unAmerican (doesn't matter if the hooligans are left-wing, right-wing, or devotees of Prince) - it infringes on the rights of everyone else in the room to address the issue and hear the response. There are many people in those rooms with legitimate concerns, complaints and criticisms about the current legislation, but they too are being drowned out by the hooligans.
I'm also very concerned. How does the government hope to defend us against a terrorist attack if it hasn't been able to figure out how to deal with a bunch of disorderly shouters.
Has Pelosi in the past endorsed hooligans who were disrupting discussions about Iraq policy? If so, then yes, she's being a hypocrite for failing to speak out back then.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76I pretty much agree with Melanerpes.
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/politics&id=6958488
I'd love for someone to explain to me why it's "un-American" to debate the healthcare issue, but was laudable democracy in action to criticize the war in Iraq.
The column she wrote specifically called those that are going to the townhalls with the purpose to disrupt them as being unamerican.
I'm sure like most people (and especially politicians) she's a hypocrite about some things though..
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by MelanerpesI can't cite chapter and verse. But I recall plenty of yelling screaming crowds shouting incoherent things at a wide variety of fora in an attempt to disrupt the Bush administration. (Cindy Sheehan comes to mind.)
Has Pelosi in the past endorsed hooligans who were disrupting discussions about Iraq policy? If so, then yes, she's being a hypocrite for failing to speak out back then.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76Disrupt the administration or disrupt town halls where civilized discourse was supposed to happen?
I can't cite chapter and verse. But I recall plenty of yelling screaming crowds shouting incoherent things at a wide variety of fora in an attempt to disrupt the Bush administration. (Cindy Sheehan comes to mind.)
11 Aug 09
2 edits
Originally posted by PsychoPawnI'm not sure I see the distinction.
Disrupt the administration or disrupt town halls where civilized discourse was supposed to happen?
Who has the authority to determine when and where "civilized discourse is supposed to happen"?
Perhaps any discourse that the participants choose to have is appropriate wherever.
Edit: Okay, I'll stop trying to be difficult. 🙂
I suspect that many of these town hall disruptions were done in a civilized manner by people who simply wanted their questions answered and/or wanted to dispel what they perceived as misinformation from the other side. Either way, the Speaker of the House should not be criticizing protesters as unAmerican, just has John Ashcroft was wrong when he said something similar about people who advocated noncompliance with the Patriot Act.
11 Aug 09
Originally posted by sh76The line drawn is simple. A townhall meeting is designed and specifically there for the congressperson or senator to answer questions.
I'm not sure I see the distinction.
Who has the authority to determine when and where "civilized discourse is supposed to happen"?
Perhaps any discourse that the participants choose to have is appropriate wherever.
Edit: Okay, I'll stop trying to be difficult. 🙂
I suspect that many of these town hall disruptions were done in a civilized manner by ...[text shortened]... hen he said something similar about people who advocated noncompliance with the Patriot Act.
I have no problem with people standing outside and yelling all they want - but be civilized when you get in.
Of course there is a small gray area, but still.
I agree that she probably shouldn't be throwing the term unamerican around since it can and obviously has been misrepresented as it was in this case.
The problem is she should be coming out strong in condemning them and I guess when she's being called a nazi, etc...
I can handle it if some things that I would like in the health care reform doesn't make it, but I guess I'm naive and innocent enough to want an actual honest debate about it.
12 Aug 09
1 edit
Originally posted by MelanerpesShe was referring to the hooligans
Pelosi was not talking about people who have a coherent concern or criticisim. She was referring to the hooligans who show up at the town meetings and scream and shout continually in hopes of drowning out any rational efforts to discuss the healthcare bill.
I agree - this sort of thing is very unAmerican (doesn't matter if the hooligans are left-wing, ut Iraq policy? If so, then yes, she's being a hypocrite for failing to speak out back then.
What ever you are smoking ,I want some of that! 🙂 The Majority of the people speaking out and attending are senior citizens. the gray hair and golf shirts was the first thing that should of tipped you off.
Hooligans?! did you type that out w/a straight face? LOL
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by FMFyes we did. Thats when you,FMF claimed conservatives were unamerican as well as unpatriotic. REMEMBER???
I thought we had a thread a few months back that pretty much established that the term "unamerican" has been rinsed of all meaning and no longer has any validity.
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonYes, I do. And it was in the process of all that that I realised it was all a hiding to nothing. I allowed my doubt to modify my outlook. I changed my mind. Does that count as a lie in your book?
yes we did. Thats when you,FMF claimed conservatives were unamerican as well as unpatriotic. REMEMBER???
12 Aug 09
Originally posted by FMFThat's a good point. It doesn't really mean anything.
I thought we had a thread a few months back that pretty much established that the term "unamerican" has been rinsed of all meaning and no longer has any validity.
But it has symbolic meaning, especially when coming from a prominent elected American politician.