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Debates Forum

  1. 03 Aug '13 00:58
    Is Libertarianism dead politically in the US EXCEPT when it comes to the right to do drugs?

    I'm asking this due to the fact that the only time I see personal freedom championed in any form politically comes in respect to doing illegal drugs. Health care is a good example of this. When do Libertarians champion their views on health care? What exactly is their "plan"?

    If and when drugs are legalized, would the libertarian movement and personal freedom die altogether all in favor of what is good for the collective?

    I do not include abortion due to the fact that the issue revolves around personhood, not individual freedom. If the unborn are deemed actually human, then they should also enjoy equal freedoms to life as everyone else.
  2. 03 Aug '13 01:07
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is Libertarianism dead politically in the US EXCEPT when it comes to the right to do drugs?

    I'm asking this due to the fact that the only time I see personal freedom championed in any form politically comes in respect to doing illegal drugs. Health care is a good example of this. When do Libertarians champion their views on health care? What exactly is ...[text shortened]... e deemed actually human, then they should also enjoy equal freedoms to life as everyone else.
    Libertarianism has never been alive politically, because it has too many branches and the branches separate themselves from the tree.

    Stated otherwise, there are libertarians on the far left, and libertarians on the right. They rarely agree on everything, even including the right to ingest or smoke based on personal choice.
  3. 03 Aug '13 01:18 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is Libertarianism dead politically in the US EXCEPT when it comes to the right to do drugs?

    I'm asking this due to the fact that the only time I see personal freedom championed in any form politically comes in respect to doing illegal drugs. Health care is a good example of this. When do Libertarians champion their views on health care? What exactly is e deemed actually human, then they should also enjoy equal freedoms to life as everyone else.
    It is a bit of a worry that if you legalised all drugs we would capitulate and do what ever the 'they' told us .... but .... in most European countries and Russia I think a personal amount of any drug is legal, you are afforded some protection even - in Belgium no one mentions it but you can grow 6 whole cannabis plants.

    These counties have not given in and turned Orwellian, the Dutch and Spanish, I still look up to them when it comes to civil liberties.
  4. 03 Aug '13 02:53
    Originally posted by e4chris
    It is a bit of a worry that if you legalised all drugs we would capitulate and do what ever the 'they' told us .... but .... in most European countries and Russia I think a personal amount of any drug is legal, you are afforded some protection even - in Belgium no one mentions it but you can grow 6 whole cannabis plants.

    These counties have not given in a ...[text shortened]... ed Orwellian, the Dutch and Spanish, I still look up to them when it comes to civil liberties.
    I would retort that the US is too Orwellian to allow drugs to be legalized. For you see, it is all about control. Given up control of anything is foriegn to to those in government.
  5. 03 Aug '13 06:49
    Originally posted by whodey
    I would retort that the US is too Orwellian to allow drugs to be legalized. For you see, it is all about control. Given up control of anything is foriegn to to those in government.
    The US has legalized a host of drugs, including alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, marihuana (in a few states) and a large variety of (recreational) prescription drugs.

    As to whether libertarianism is dead in the US: let's hope so, for the sake of Americans.
  6. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    03 Aug '13 06:51
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is Libertarianism dead politically in the US EXCEPT when it comes to the right to do drugs?

    I'm asking this due to the fact that the only time I see personal freedom championed in any form politically comes in respect to doing illegal drugs. Health care is a good example of this. When do Libertarians champion their views on health care? What exactly is ...[text shortened]... e deemed actually human, then they should also enjoy equal freedoms to life as everyone else.
    Typical Libertarians are in favor of Big Business which is not the most popular view nowadays.
  7. 03 Aug '13 18:24 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Typical Libertarians are in favor of Big Business which is not the most popular view nowadays.
    Really? Big Business wants the ability to discriminate against you if you smoke pot. In fact, most guys I know who smoke can't find a decent job due to drug testing. Most pick the drug over a earning a decent living.

    The reasons are obvious. Smoking anything is just bad for you. Just smoking in general in the US can exclude you from jobs these days. Big Business does not want increased sick leave and does not want people going on smoke breaks etc. And lastly, who wants someone on the job who might have a good buzz?

    For these reasons alone, drugs will never be legalized.
  8. 03 Aug '13 18:26
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Libertarianism has never been alive politically, because it has too many branches and the branches separate themselves from the tree.

    Stated otherwise, there are libertarians on the far left, and libertarians on the right. They rarely agree on everything, even including the right to ingest or smoke based on personal choice.
    I think the main difference is that collectivists are willing to vote for horrible political leaders they may disdain simply to centralize power. Libertarians are simply unwilling to do the same to decentralize power.

    I guess that's what makes them collectivists.
  9. 03 Aug '13 18:29 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    The US has legalized a host of drugs, including alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, marihuana (in a few states) and a large variety of (recreational) prescription drugs.

    As to whether libertarianism is dead in the US: let's hope so, for the sake of Americans.
    I don't recall the US federal government ever making caffeine illegal. As for alcohol, that is perhaps the only example I can think of which the government made a drug legal after being illegal. It is interesting how the government then took over the business with state run liquor stores. Very telling.

    As for the states making pot legal, that only goes so far due to the fact that federally it is still illegal. Once again, the federal power triumps over the states.

    Why do you think libertarianism is better off dead? What scares you about it so?
  10. 03 Aug '13 21:08
    Originally posted by whodey
    I don't recall the US federal government ever making caffeine illegal. As for alcohol, that is perhaps the only example I can think of which the government made a drug legal after being illegal. It is interesting how the government then took over the business with state run liquor stores. Very telling.

    As for the states making pot legal, that only goes ...[text shortened]... he states.

    Why do you think libertarianism is better off dead? What scares you about it so?
    Libertarianism doesn't "scare" me. It's like high school shootings - teenagers (and people who have reached similar stages of maturity) may fantasize about it, but it's better if it just doesn't happen.
  11. Subscriber Wajoma
    Die Cheeseburger
    04 Aug '13 11:29
    http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/02/state-seizes-two-year-old-child-from-par
  12. 04 Aug '13 11:39
    Originally posted by Wajoma
    http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/02/state-seizes-two-year-old-child-from-par
    If I were the father, I would consider bringing murder charges against the state, not that any state run court would give a damn.
  13. 04 Aug '13 11:39
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    Libertarianism doesn't "scare" me. It's like high school shootings - teenagers (and people who have reached similar stages of maturity) may fantasize about it, but it's better if it just doesn't happen.
    In other words, grab your ankles and like it?

    Ok then.
  14. 05 Aug '13 18:27
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Libertarianism has never been alive politically, because it has too many branches and the branches separate themselves from the tree.

    Stated otherwise, there are libertarians on the far left, and libertarians on the right. They rarely agree on everything, even including the right to ingest or smoke based on personal choice.
    True
  15. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    06 Aug '13 06:19
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is Libertarianism dead politically in the US EXCEPT when it comes to the right to do drugs?

    I'm asking this due to the fact that the only time I see personal freedom championed in any form politically comes in respect to doing illegal drugs. Health care is a good example of this. When do Libertarians champion their views on health care? What exactly is ...[text shortened]... e deemed actually human, then they should also enjoy equal freedoms to life as everyone else.
    What can I say Whodey...it's a world gone mad. We tried it the conservative way from 2000-2008. All we got in return was a badly damaged economy, and a bunch of lies about "weapons of mass destruction in Iraq". For some strange reason most American voters don't want to go back to that.