02 Dec 14
1 edit
Pilots at Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) started a two-day walkout on Monday, their ninth strike this year, forcing Germany's flagship airline to cancel close to half of all scheduled flights and leaving thousands of travellers stranded.
-snip-
VC, representing about 5,400 Lufthansa pilots, is fighting to keep the scheme, which allows pilots to retire at the age of 55 and still receive up to 60 percent of their pay before regular pension payments start at 65.
Lufthansa has said it made concessions in recent talks, including a 5 percent pay rise, but reiterated it would not accept a demand that new pilots, as well as those already with the company, should be able to retire at 55.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/12/01/us-lufthansa-unions-cancellation-idUSKCN0JF1D320141201
Retire at 55? Seriously? With life expectancy now running well into the 80's, why is it that people think they're entitled to 30 years of living on the dole? I'd understand if these people were bricklayers or lumberjacks who might not be physically able to continue at that age. But airline pilots?
It's truly a bizarre aspect of the entitlement mentality that white collar workers feel entitled to retire at such young ages. If people have the money, of course, they can do what they want, but to strand thousands of people to strike for the right to retire in the middle of your prime working age? Entitlement on steroids.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76Standard retirement age in the British Army is 55. There are some jobs you do not want people doing when they get old and given the number of lives at stake air line pilot is one of them. If they are forced to retire at 55 then there's the question of what they do between the ages of 55 and 65. Finding a new career at that age is not straightforward. Some of them can find other roles within the airline industry, but not all of them.
[quote] Pilots at Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) started a two-day walkout on Monday, their ninth strike this year, forcing Germany's flagship airline to cancel close to half of all scheduled flights and leaving thousands of travellers stranded.
-snip-
VC, representing about 5,400 Lufthansa pilots, is fighting to keep the scheme, which allows pilots to retire at the ...[text shortened]... strike for the right to retire in the middle of your prime working age? Entitlement on steroids.
02 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThought56 years old is hardly "old" in today's day and age.
Standard retirement age in the British Army is 55. There are some jobs you do not want people doing when they get old and given the number of lives at stake air line pilot is one of them. If they are forced to retire at 55 then there's the question of what they do between the ages of 55 and 65. Finding a new career at that age is not straightforward. Some of them can find other roles within the airline industry, but not all of them.
You want to to force pilots into retirement for safety reasons at age 70 or 75? Fine. Age 55 is a little ridiculous. Most people are still plenty sharp enough to operate at age 55. My parents are in their early 60's and the idea that they're "too old" to work any job that doesn't include strenuous physical labor is absurd. Both still work and both, indeed, are at the apex of their careers in terms of earnings. And I am quite confident that they are not the aberration but the norm.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76Retirement at the age of sixty may be a good compromise. That is only five years later and the pilots would still be young enough to enjoy their retirement for a few years at least.
56 years old is hardly "old" in today's day and age.
You want to to force pilots into retirement for safety reasons at age 70 or 75? Fine. Age 55 is a little ridiculous. Most people are still plenty sharp enough to operate at age 55. My parents are in their early 60's and the idea that they're "too old" to work any job that doesn't include strenuous physical ...[text shortened]... rs in terms of earnings. And I am quite confident that they are not the aberration but the norm.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by RJHindsFor white collar workers, there's no reason society should subsidize retirement at any age until at least 65; and probably closer to 70.
Retirement at the age of sixty may be a good compromise. That is only five years later and the pilots would still be young enough to enjoy their retirement for a few years at least.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76From management's POV, it's just a form of deferred compensation, to be paid after a fixed maximum term of employment (fixed, that is, person-by-person). Both sides factor it into total employee compensation and try to get the best deal.
56 years old is hardly "old" in today's day and age.
You want to to force pilots into retirement for safety reasons at age 70 or 75? Fine. Age 55 is a little ridiculous. Most people are still plenty sharp enough to operate at age 55. My parents are in their early 60's and the idea that they're "too old" to work any job that doesn't include strenuous physical ...[text shortened]... rs in terms of earnings. And I am quite confident that they are not the aberration but the norm.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76No, I think you don't quite get it. An employer setting a salary for a worker is a kind of Ultimatum Game.
Are you saying they don't *really* want age 55 retirement? Is that why that's the current scheme and they're walking out in the middle of Holiday season with that as their central demand?
Pilots are in a very strong negotiating position, much stronger than the typical other white collar worker, so they can make strong demands. It's not about what is fair or reasonable but simply about what they can demand in their position.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76You act as if age has anything to do with living on the dole.
[quote] Pilots at Lufthansa (LHAG.DE) started a two-day walkout on Monday, their ninth strike this year, forcing Germany's flagship airline to cancel close to half of all scheduled flights and leaving thousands of travellers stranded.
-snip-
VC, representing about 5,400 Lufthansa pilots, is fighting to keep the scheme, which allows pilots to retire at the ...[text shortened]... strike for the right to retire in the middle of your prime working age? Entitlement on steroids.
It doesn't.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by KazetNagorraThen negotiate for more money. Why negotiate for something as pointless as the right to retire in the middle of your career?
No, I think you don't quite get it. An employer setting a salary for a worker is a kind of Ultimatum Game.
Pilots are in a very strong negotiating position, much stronger than the typical other white collar worker, so they can make strong demands. It's not about what is fair or reasonable but simply about what they can demand in their position.
02 Dec 14
Originally posted by sh76I did not know that German pilots were white collar workers. Are German train drivers also white collar workes? How about bus and taxi drivers?
For white collar workers, there's no reason society should subsidize retirement at any age until at least 65; and probably closer to 70.
http://online.wsj.com/articles/strikes-by-train-drivers-pilots-hit-germany-1413824037