Originally posted by WajomaNow, you see I'd disagree. What you've described is a breach of contract, which may happen even with the best of will from the party who breached it. Fraud involves a deliberate misrepresentation, with the basic intention to steal. I think that if I'm going to have redundancy as an act of violence then fraud, depending on the details of the case, could quite easily fall into the same category. There have been cases of grannies talked out of their life savings, which fulfils all the requirements of an act of violence I was making for redundancy, and the fraudsters caught were treated especially harshly by the law (although there was no indication of physical violence).
I would say fraud is a cousin of force, it's not force and it's not violence but if two parties enter into an agreement whether it's the buying and selling of ones talents and time, or the buying and selling of ones car, if something is promised and it dosen't happen then the contract has been broken and assistance from the law should be available.
Incidentally assistance from the law in enforcing a contract involves the threat of physical force; so appealing to the law is essentially to appeal to an enitity that'll do your violence for you, if it agrees with you.
1 edit
Originally posted by DeepThoughtIt's OK because it is in response, it is not an initiation. And I'm afraid you can't have a redundancy as being an act of violence - it just isn't.
Incidentally assistance from the law in enforcing a contract involves the threat of physical force; so appealing to the law is essentially to appeal to an enitity that'll do your violence for you, if it agrees with you.
This was mentioned in my first post. The initiation of force, threats of force (and as we have since established) fraud.
Originally posted by hoven5thThe point is you blokes want to redefine the word to suit your collectivist agenda. More people are living longer, better, healthier, wealthier lives then ever in history.
The point is that slavery has become more subtle. Overt opression has morphed into repression. A man thinks he is living the best of all possible lives while he spends a significant fraction of it toiling for the grand wealth of others. Because a man is not starving, he thinks he is lucky (lucky!), and will willingly sacrafice more of his life in toil.
...[text shortened]... t have to. This is not the most oppressive form of slavery, to be sure, but a form nonetheless
Do not sacrifice your life for others.
If you despise your job, look at becoming self employed in a job you love, start a business, just quit whining.
If we could change from coercion to persuasion we'd have alot less regulation and the parasite bureaurats that go for a ride on the backs of the productive.
Originally posted by WajomaYou accept that, at least in some cases, fraud would count as an act of violence, not because there is any physical intimidation, but because of the material loss to someone who can't afford the loss?
It's OK because it is in response, it is not an initiation. And I'm afraid you can't have a redundancy as being an act of violence - it just isn't.
This was mentioned in my first post. The [b]initiation of force, threats of force (and as we have since established) fraud.[/b]
Yes I do know that's a loaded question 😉
Originally posted by DeepThoughtNo, force is force, fraud is fraud. The link is that in the each case(force, threats of force and fraud), one of the parties is not voluntary.
You accept that, at least in some cases, fraud would count as an act of violence, not because there is any physical intimidation, but because of the material loss to someone who can't afford the loss?
Yes I do know that's a loaded question 😉
I can see where you're trying to take this i.e. if someone is made redundant and they don't consent to their being made redundant then they are being forced into redundancy. But you need to take one step back and you'll see that in order for there to be a voluntary exchange of value for value both parties must consent. Not just the employee, and not just the employer.
One more piece of advice those that get bitter and twisted if the company they work for makes a profit, (I should be charging a fee for this) go and look for a job with a mismanaged non-profitable going down the tubes company, you'll be much happier.
money.
if i would have a viable alternate economy and the power to change the current one, i would.
the economic system that compels people to seek the acquisition of wealth is appalling. wars are being fought people killed because of the rich getting richer and controlling the world.