@jimmac said" The top 1% in the US of A pay 40% of the personal income tax."
@zahlanzi said
"As I have stated before, capitalism in the best we have."
Capitalism can still exist with a progressive tax.
We agree on this, though we may disagree on the semantics.
Nope. Billions of dollars sitting in offshore accounts.
Doing what, the depositor may " sit " the money in the account, but the money never simply sits.
Regular people ind ...[text shortened]... ontributions. I am not saying that is bad in any way, kids are the future. That is just as I see it.
That's not a good thing, it's an indictment on how much personal wealth they have. Even with such a low tax rate, even with offshore accounts and tax loopholes and dummy companies, the very few have such a large share of the overall wealth and thus tax income
"Giving them benefits according to their circumstances is better than tax cuts as it is targeted"
Sure that's a discussion to have
"The bottom 30% at least, have negative contributions. I am not saying that is bad in any way, kids are the future. That is just as I see it."
That's how it should be. I don;t want to take a dollar from the guy making two dollars. He might be left tarving. Taking a few extra % from billionaires (even if not implementing that 90% progressive tax) not only doesn't starve them, it doesn't even turn them into millionaires
@averagejoe1 saidCan you at least work on making sure no one starves and everyone has a place to live to raise their kids?
Zahlanzi, sorry for my strong language above. I am Extemely for freedom to do what you want to so within the law., Build want you want to build, unfettered.
As to the firewood analogy above, I get it, but it is a bit of a stretch in a country like the USA. There is something for everyone here. No such restriction or lack of access as suggested by the firewood analogy ...[text shortened]... drive that home, but libs just do not get that, it is like there has been no education in economics.
In America, no one should go hungry and no one should live on the street. That they do, shows this country to be a dismal moral failure among civilized societies.
@zahlanzi saidI am sure we care about the same things, I feel your pain. I just do not see the solution being an easy one, in fact I doubt there are any solutions, maybe better options is all.
" The top 1% in the US of A pay 40% of the personal income tax."
That's not a good thing, it's an indictment on how much personal wealth they have. Even with such a low tax rate, even with offshore accounts and tax loopholes and dummy companies, the very few have such a large share of the overall wealth and thus tax income
"Giving them benefits according to their circums ...[text shortened]... that 90% progressive tax) not only doesn't starve them, it doesn't even turn them into millionaires
I know you will not agree but by and large the poor choose to be poor. Not by saying, "I want to be poor", though maybe some, lol, but by their, and or their parents choices.
Some examples, I have 3 adult children, 2 brought investment properties, 1 did not. Any guessing who's better off. 30 plus years ago my wife and myself would go on an outing with the extended family to the beach. My wife and I stopped before the paid parking and walked to the beach, my poor, and poorer now in laws paid rather than walk 5 min. We took food, they brought it inc ice cream at top price. We saved, they spent, What outcome would you desire from that?. They now just get by, me no probs at all. Not rich but very comfortable. I wonder if the extremes got bigger if you would suggest that I give them my money. I will leave my children with a financially secure future. If they continue in my vain and my in-laws kids continue in theirs, what then. Why should I be made to reward their " planning " to be poor.
@suzianne saidSorry Suzianne, it is a problem that cannot be fixed no matter how hard we try. But you keep on trying, good on you and good luck.
Can you at least work on making sure no one starves and everyone has a place to live to raise their kids?
In America, no one should go hungry and no one should live on the street. That they do, shows this country to be a dismal moral failure among civilized societies.
@jimmac said" I know you will not agree but by and large the poor choose to be poor"
I am sure we care about the same things, I feel your pain. I just do not see the solution being an easy one, in fact I doubt there are any solutions, maybe better options is all.
I know you will not agree but by and large the poor choose to be poor. Not by saying, "I want to be poor", though maybe some, lol, but by their, and or their parents choices.
Some examples, I have ...[text shortened]... ws kids continue in theirs, what then. Why should I be made to reward their " planning " to be poor.
Come now, that's a simplistic way of thinking.
There is no amount of choice to not be poor to help you get over the fact that you must work 12 hours to not starve and therefore have no time to learn a better trade. That is, if you would even have the money to attend those clases.
There is no good personal choices to get over the fact you live in the middle of rural America and the only factory in town closed to move those jobs to Vietnam.
"I have 3 adult children, 2 brought investment properties, 1 did not. Any guessing who's better off."
We are just discussing in this thread how Americans allow multi billion corporations to buy all the houses on the market, driving prices up and muscling out small investors.
"My wife and I stopped before the paid parking and walked to the beach, my poor, and poorer now in laws paid rather than walk 5 min."
This is exactly the same argument as "millenials can't buy a home because they eat too much avocado toast". How many years do you think it will take for a millenial to skip that indulgence in order to afford a 500k$ home (the average price in US). 500? 1000?
"I wonder if the extremes got bigger if you would suggest that I give them my money."
Absolutely nobody is suggesting the middle class give their money to the poor. I don't understand how there are people this gullible to think socialists are after the 50k-100k income bracket. We want the billionaires, something you are so far removed from that they may as well be aliens or wizards from another dimension to pay a little more, so that the guy flipping burgers at mcdonalds can have the time and resources to maybe go to a school and learn another job. We want the multi-billion dollar corporations to not be rewarded if they outsource jobs. We want tax loopholes gone. We want the IRS better funded so they investigate the billionaires' tax voodoo.
"I will leave my children with a financially secure future."
You said you live in NZ? How is your healthcare? How is your education system? How whorshipped are your billionaires and how many do you even have.
It's quite easy to make "good personal choices" to get out of poverty when you don't have to worry about healthcare. It's quite easy to make the choice to attend university when it's like 15k USD. Plus all other factors that are due to NZ society caring more for it's regular citizens than its billionaires. Things that are paid for by taxes, as it should be.
How large military budget do you have? How many dollars have you spent on military bases around the world or on never ending wars?
Pulling one up by their boostraps is quite easy in NZ. You're playing on easy mode.
"Why should I be made to reward their " planning " to be poor."
Ignoring for a second the multitude of reasons one is poor beyond "poor planning", you shouldn't be. And you aren't. Asking billionaires to contribute more is going to help you too. And in a country with such obscene wealth concentrated into the hands of so few, it's a no brainer.
@jimmac said"Sorry Suzianne, it is a problem that cannot be fixed no matter how hard we try"
Sorry Suzianne, it is a problem that cannot be fixed no matter how hard we try. But you keep on trying, good on you and good luck.
what do you mean it can't be fixed. fixed how. compare canada and the US. Norway and the US. Clear examples of one being better than the other.
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@jimmac saidI have always said, cancel all welfare except for fully covering the down-and-out, about 40M people. Food clothing shelter meds. Suzianne, that will answer your question above.
Sorry Suzianne, it is a problem that cannot be fixed no matter how hard we try. But you keep on trying, good on you and good luck.
Note that JImmac is saying what I have been chided for for years. Just like I think that pregnant women wanted to get pregnant, I think that people who ae poor want to be poor. There are 11M jobs available in that town over there, but these poor guys on the corner apparently (no, not apparently...they do..) want to be poor, as they don't go to work. Of course a bit of planning may have been in order.
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@zahlanzi saidYour posts ('get the billionaires '😉 suggest to simply go where the money is, like the bank robber robs banks, because that is where the money is.
"Sorry Suzianne, it is a problem that cannot be fixed no matter how hard we try"
what do you mean it can't be fixed. fixed how. compare canada and the US. Norway and the US. Clear examples of one being better than the other.
Your posts say tax them 99%, which is saying take all the money that they make over 100B. You actually think that they will keep working and investing and creating jobs in such a scenario.
While I have your attention, do you know that of the $5.8 Trillion on the table, only $300M (fraction) is earmarked for thr border crisis?. Cllimate crisis is mentioned 33 TYiumes, the border crisis is NOT mentioned at all. Biden does not care about securing the border. Ironic, because this month is when the flood gates open.
FOX will cover it 24/7 if you care. You can see why CNN will not.
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You weenies are all into cliiiiiiimate control, you have no idea what is about to happen at the border. Guess we need.a thread on it, this is the month Biden sends about 18,000 people A Day into various cities in the USA. He is not prepared, and he has not prepared the cities that don't even know they are coming.
If I start such a thread, it will of course be negative. How bout instead one of you libs start a positive thread on the influx of our brothers and and criminals and dealers and traffickers into our sovereign country.
Y'all are hilarious, the rich are the solution, yet you actually think they are the problem. Child thinking. You actually cannot stand entrepreneurs. Which country has the most entrepreneurs? Lets start with Musk, who is a genius battery producer. Dont you libs want more electricity>. Musk kicks butt, Zahlanzi , for example, has no idea about free enterprise and how great it is that we can all get rich. And I dont mean rich in the way of money. Idiots!!
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@sonhouse saidActually, everyone in America knows, but apparently no one here on the Forum does. Too busy discussing and solving election problems of last year, but we are thankful that y'all are on it and will reach a solution soon.
@AverageJoe1
So only rightwingnuts know what is going on near the border. Got it.