Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Unknown Territories
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    09 Jun '17 18:33
    It took an appeal outside of the UK's highest court to make it happen, but baby Charlie Gard narrowly avoided death by state decree today... well, at least until Tuesday.

    His parents have been doing whatever necessary to get him here to the States to treat his very rare ailment, but the three person death panel in the UK determined that they know better than the parents as to what constitutes the child's best interest.
    One of these geniuses opined...

    "The parents are deemed to be … the sole and only determiner of what can happen, [that’s] dangerous and it’s power without end.”


    Arrogant parents!
    Don't they know the State rules in these matters?
    What is wrong with people these days, thinking they know what's best for their own children?!
    Someone needs to put such defiance in its place.
    Soon.
  2. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    09 Jun '17 19:52
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It took an appeal outside of the UK's highest court to make it happen, but baby Charlie Gard narrowly avoided death by state decree today... well, at least until Tuesday.

    His parents have been doing whatever necessary to get him here to the States to treat his very rare ailment, but the three person death panel in the UK determined that they know better ...[text shortened]... ow what's best for their own children?!
    Someone needs to put such defiance in its place.
    Soon.
    The case is bizarre to say the least; the parents have raised enough money to pay for travel and treatment in the US, but UK courts have blocked it:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40225132

    The European Court of Human Rights has stayed previous orders which would have allowed the hospital Charlie is presently in to end life support at least until a proceeding on Tuesday.

    After Brexit, will the ECHR have any jurisdiction in the UK?
  3. Joined
    02 Jan '06
    Moves
    10087
    09 Jun '17 19:56
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It took an appeal outside of the UK's highest court to make it happen, but baby Charlie Gard narrowly avoided death by state decree today... well, at least until Tuesday.

    His parents have been doing whatever necessary to get him here to the States to treat his very rare ailment, but the three person death panel in the UK determined that they know better ...[text shortened]... ow what's best for their own children?!
    Someone needs to put such defiance in its place.
    Soon.
    Well it's socialized medicine at its finest.

    Not only is it what they offer their citizens, it's like Hotel California baby! You can never leave and get treated elsewhere.
  4. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    09 Jun '17 19:56
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    The case is bizarre to say the least; the parents have raised enough money to pay for travel and treatment in the US, but UK courts have blocked it:

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-40225132

    The European Court of Human Rights has stayed previous orders which would have allowed the hospital Charlie is presently in to end life support at least until a proceeding on Tuesday.

    After Brexit, will the ECHR have any jurisdiction in the UK?
    According to the article, the money isn't for "treatment" but for prolonging the baby's life so it can suffer a bit more.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    09 Jun '17 20:06
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    According to the article, the money isn't for "treatment" but for prolonging the baby's life so it can suffer a bit more.
    Not true. From the link I provided:

    The American doctor who has agreed to treat Charlie has previously told the High Court the six-month therapy would be "treatment but not a cure".
    The neurologist who would oversee the treatment told the court that while Charlie was in the "terminal stage" of his illness, treating him would be compassionate.
    He added that there could be a meaningful improvement to his brain function meaning that he might be able to interact and smile.
  6. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    09 Jun '17 20:20
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Not true. From the link I provided:

    The American doctor who has agreed to treat Charlie has previously told the High Court the six-month therapy would be "treatment but not a cure".
    The neurologist who would oversee the treatment told the court that while Charlie was in the "terminal stage" of his illness, treating him would be compassionate.
    He add ...[text shortened]... eaningful improvement to his brain function meaning that he might be able to interact and smile.
    That's the part I was alluding to.
  7. Subscriberno1marauder
    Humble and Kind
    In the Gazette
    Joined
    22 Jun '04
    Moves
    39965
    09 Jun '17 20:40
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    That's the part I was alluding to.
    Then your remark that the money wasn't for treatment is puzzling to say the least.
  8. Unknown Territories
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    09 Jun '17 20:53
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    According to the article, the money isn't for "treatment" but for prolonging the baby's life so it can suffer a bit more.
    Suffer more?
    Ouch.
    While every single one of us--- who have come to some degree of consciousness--- is free to play our individual token in any fashion we choose, i.e., ending one's life, a baby is not capable of making that decision for themselves.
    That's why parents were invented: to make decisions for their children until their children develop into sentient beings themselves.
    These parents are perfectly within their rights and obligations to exercise that traditional role--- "traditional" as in, for ever.
    And if these parents deem whatever suffering their child may be asked to endure in the hope to gain some kind of contact, any kind of contact with the two people who love him more than their own lives, as worth it, I am persuaded they absolutely are right.
  9. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    09 Jun '17 20:57
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Suffer more?
    Ouch.
    While every single one of us--- who have come to some degree of consciousness--- is free to play our individual token in any fashion we choose, i.e., ending one's life, a baby is not capable of making that decision for themselves.
    That's why parents were invented: to make decisions for their children until their children develop into ...[text shortened]... e who love him more than their own lives, as worth it, I am persuaded they absolutely are right.
    If you think parents are the best people to make decisions
    for their children you are a bigger fool than I previously thought.

    Try working with Social Services for a while.
  10. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    09 Jun '17 21:03
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    Then your remark that the money wasn't for treatment is puzzling to say the least.
    My point, and the content of the article, is that it is "treatment" only in the sense of slightly prolonging the baby's suffering.
  11. Unknown Territories
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    09 Jun '17 21:08
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    If you think parents are the best people to make decisions
    for their children you are a bigger fool than I previously thought.

    Try working with Social Services for a while.
    Come on, nothing in my post suggests that.
    There is an assumption of solid parenting, as that isn't in the State's consideration.

    I've seen plenty of examples of people who cannot control themselves, let alone parent a child into adulthood, and in those cases, the State absolutely should intervene... and get the child to someone who will be a parent... who makes those decisions for them.
  12. Standard membershavixmir
    Guppy poo
    Sewers of Holland
    Joined
    31 Jan '04
    Moves
    56284
    10 Jun '17 04:14
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    It took an appeal outside of the UK's highest court to make it happen, but baby Charlie Gard narrowly avoided death by state decree today... well, at least until Tuesday.

    His parents have been doing whatever necessary to get him here to the States to treat his very rare ailment, but the three person death panel in the UK determined that they know better ...[text shortened]... ow what's best for their own children?!
    Someone needs to put such defiance in its place.
    Soon.
    Complete bollocks and taking the whole story out of context.

    The kid is going to die.
    Without life support, it will die.
    The trial treatment in the US won't cure it, might slightly increase brain function for a limited time.
    Might, trial, costs millions and even the doctor who's willibg tondonthe trial says the kid is going to die; the parents might get a smile.
    (Source: the link Marauder posted).

    The EU court has said it needs more time to study the case and that the kid should remain on life support until they've come to a conclusion.

    There's nothing wrong with any of it. Even the parents can't be blamed for their wanting.
    However, doctors and judges are weighing up the distress a move to the US will cause the kid for a treatment that might increase brain activity, but has 0% chance of a cure.
  13. Unknown Territories
    Joined
    05 Dec '05
    Moves
    20408
    10 Jun '17 05:01
    Originally posted by shavixmir
    Complete bollocks and taking the whole story out of context.

    The kid is going to die.
    Without life support, it will die.
    The trial treatment in the US won't cure it, might slightly increase brain function for a limited time.
    Might, trial, costs millions and even the doctor who's willibg tondonthe trial says the kid is going to die; the parents might ...[text shortened]... l cause the kid for a treatment that might increase brain activity, but has 0% chance of a cure.
    Looks like I missed it.
    What was the point?
  14. Standard memberwolfgang59
    Mr. Wolf
    at home
    Joined
    09 Jun '07
    Moves
    45641
    10 Jun '17 05:39
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Looks like I missed it.
    What was the point?
    Common-sense.

    I can see why you missed it.
  15. Germany
    Joined
    27 Oct '08
    Moves
    3118
    10 Jun '17 07:40
    Originally posted by FreakyKBH
    Looks like I missed it.
    What was the point?
    The point is you missed it in your OP.
Back to Top