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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 16 Nov '11 03:54
    http://sanders.senate.gov/news.com/news/?id=9e2a4ea8-6e73-4be2-a753-62060dcbb3c3

    It appears that the Fed has given an eye popping $16 trillion to US corporations and corporations around the world!!

    Of course, many of you are feeling confused right about now. After all, this is socialism for the rich. For those on the left, its socialism.......so they kinda like it, but hate the rich. For conservatives, they kinda like corporations benefiting.....but they hate socialism of any kind.

    So why don't we all come together and give everyone the boot in Washington?
  2. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Nov '11 05:35
    I think facile sarcasm and bumper sticker simplifications are two things that might be a barrier to people coming together to solve problems in a bipartisan way.
  3. 16 Nov '11 12:17
    Originally posted by FMF
    I think facile sarcasm and bumper sticker simplifications are two things that might be a barrier to people coming together to solve problems in a bipartisan way.
    The government got to this point in a bipartisan way. Perhaps its time to put an end to both parties.
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Nov '11 12:58
    Originally posted by whodey
    The government got to this point in a bipartisan way. Perhaps its time to put an end to both parties.
    You'll need a platform, whodey. People won't vote for sarcastic quips and trite nostrums.
  5. 16 Nov '11 13:36
    Originally posted by FMF
    You'll need a platform, whodey. People won't vote for sarcastic quips and trite nostrums.
    I don't know, stop giving money away might be a pretty good platform. It could include several planks. For instance, stop giving money to farmers, stop giving money to oil companies, stop giving money to corporations, stop giving money to people who have been unemployed for 2 yrs or more, stop giving money to defense contractors, stop giving money to nations like Germany and Japan by providing their national defense. Should we go on? The list of people our government is giving money away to is quite extensive. I think whodey's platform could be large enough for a lot of people.
  6. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Nov '11 13:45
    Originally posted by dryhump
    I don't know, stop giving money away might be a pretty good platform. It could include several planks. For instance, stop giving money to farmers, stop giving money to oil companies, stop giving money to corporations, stop giving money to people who have been unemployed for 2 yrs or more, stop giving money to defense contractors, stop giving money to natio ...[text shortened]... y to is quite extensive. I think whodey's platform could be large enough for a lot of people.
    I can probably agree with you on some of those points. Sure. But if you and whodey think it's going to "put an end to both parties", as he put it, then we are perhaps seeing something different out there in the real world.
  7. 16 Nov '11 14:32
    Originally posted by FMF
    You'll need a platform, whodey. People won't vote for sarcastic quips and trite nostrums.
    Unfortunately,, they do.
  8. 16 Nov '11 14:40
    Originally posted by FMF
    I can probably agree with you on some of those points. Sure. But if you and whodey think it's going to "put an end to both parties", as he put it, then we are perhaps seeing something different out there in the real world.
    As long as people think they can get the government to give them what they want, and get someone else to pay for it, both parties will pander to the groups they think will get them elected.

    As long as something is for sale, there will be a buyer, and as long as there is a buyer there will be a seller.

    Limited and dispersed government power was supposed to at least slow this down. As we remove the checks and balances, and move closer to direct democracy, the tendency to be ruled by factions ever increases.

    The Fed enables the spending of massive amounts of money without the immediate pain of tax increases.
  9. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    16 Nov '11 14:44
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Unfortunately,, they do.
    No. They vote with their wallets. And they vote with their families in mind. They worry about health. About schools. About job security. Politicians let them down, it's true, though not all the time. Many things in the U.S. have been proudly fought for, developed well and work ok. The country and many aspects of how it is run are iconic and a source of inspiration in this world. There is plenty of reason to be proud and optimistic. I'd say most people - left right and centre - are pretty decent and realistic, and they face this imperfect world and your imperfect system with integrity and rueful insight... your cloying negativity and spectacularly unoriginal condescension notwithstanding.
  10. 16 Nov '11 18:46
    Originally posted by FMF
    No. They vote with their wallets. And they vote with their families in mind. They worry about health. About schools. About job security. Politicians let them down, it's true, though not all the time. Many things in the U.S. have been proudly fought for, developed well and work ok. The country and many aspects of how it is run are iconic and a source of inspirati ...[text shortened]... ight... your cloying negativity and spectacularly unoriginal condescension notwithstanding.
    Wow, a glimpse of FMF's optimistic side. I'll give that a thumb's up.
  11. Subscriber Sleepyguy
    Reepy Rastardly Guy
    16 Nov '11 19:03
    Originally posted by FMF
    No. They vote with their wallets. And they vote with their families in mind. They worry about health. About schools. About job security. Politicians let them down, it's true, though not all the time. Many things in the U.S. have been proudly fought for, developed well and work ok. The country and many aspects of how it is run are iconic and a source of inspirati ...[text shortened]... ight... your cloying negativity and spectacularly unoriginal condescension notwithstanding.
    OK, I'm cranking up the Grateful Dead archive on that one.
  12. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    17 Nov '11 01:09
    Originally posted by Sleepyguy
    OK, I'm cranking up the Grateful Dead archive on that one.
    Must be getting early
    Clocks are running late
    Paint by number morning sky
    Looks so phony
    Dawn is breaking everywhere
    Light a candle, curse the glare
    Draw the curtains
    I don't care 'cause
    It's all right
    I will get by / I will get by
    I will get by / I will survive
    I see you've got your list out
    Say your piece and get out
    Yes I get the gist of it
    but it's all right
    Sorry that you feel that way
    The only thing there is to say
    Every silver lining's got a
    Touch of grey
    I will get by / I will get by
    I will get by / I will survive
    It's a lesson to me
    The Ables and the Bakers and the C's
    The ABC's we all must face
    And try to keep a little grace
    It's a lesson to me
    The deltas and the east and the freeze
    The ABC's we all think of
    Try to give a little love.
    I know the rent is in arrears
    The dog has not been fed in years
    It's even worse than it appears
    but it's all right.
    Cows giving kerosene
    Kid can't read at seventeen
    The words he knows are all obscene
    but it's all right
    I will get by / I will get by
    I will get by / I will survive
    The shoe is on the hand it fits
    There's really nothing much to it
    Whistle through your teeth and spit
    causeit's all right.
    Oh well a touch of grey
    Kind of suits you anyway.
    That was all I had to say
    It's all right.
    I will get by / I will get by
    I will get by / I will survive
    We will get by / We will get by
    We will get by / We will survive
  13. 17 Nov '11 17:20 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by FMF
    No. They vote with their wallets. And they vote with their families in mind. They worry about health. About schools. About job security. Politicians let them down, it's true, though not all the time. Many things in the U.S. have been proudly fought for, developed well and work ok. The country and many aspects of how it is run are iconic and a source of inspirati ight... your cloying negativity and spectacularly unoriginal condescension notwithstanding.
    Everyone wants more money, including the government. So who do you suppose will win this game?

    Here is a quote from the hallowed progressive J.M. Keynes.

    "Lenin is said to have declared that the best way to destroy the Capitalist system was to debaush the currency. By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By their method they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily, and, while the process impoverishes many, it is actually enriches some. The sight of the arbitrary rearrangement of riches strikes not only at security, but at confidence in the equity of the existing distribution of wealth. These to whom the system brings windfalls, beyond their deserts and even beyond their expectations of deserts, become 'profiteers', who are the objects of hatred of the bourgeoise, whom the inflation has impoverished, not less than of the proletariot. As the inflation proceeds, and the real value of the currency fluctuates wildly from month to month, all permanent relations between debtors and creditors, which form the ultimate foundation of capitalism, become so utterly disordered as to be almost meaningless, and the process of wealth - getting degenerated into a gamble and a lottery."

    The Economic Consequences of Peace" J.M. Keynes.

    So as we can see, it is smoke and mirrors. Politicians make it appear that you are voting for more wealth for yourself, but in reality, it is the other way round. Most don't understand the game they are playing.
  14. 19 Nov '11 02:17
    Originally posted by FMF
    No. They vote with their wallets. And they vote with their families in mind. They worry about health. About schools. About job security. Politicians let them down, it's true, though not all the time. Many things in the U.S. have been proudly fought for, developed well and work ok. The country and many aspects of how it is run are iconic and a source of inspirati ...[text shortened]... ight... your cloying negativity and spectacularly unoriginal condescension notwithstanding.
    I like most of what you said, but people are still and more so in recent years voting for sound bites.