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  1. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 00:39
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97350149

    A little late, I know, but it just goes to show how government lied to us about it. Wilson was sending the UK arms, and as such, it was a legitimate military target.
  2. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 00:431 edit
    Reminds me of how LBJ made up a story of American ships being attacked by Vietnam to justify entering the war.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/02/vietnam-presidents-lie-to-wage-war-Iraq

    Then we have "W" and his "WMD" claim in Iraq.

    And we can never forget Obama and the UN claiming that they needed to save lives in Libya that were threatened by Gaddafi.

    Is this just business as usual?

    And let's suppose Trump has told a billion lies. Are any of them as bad that cause such death and misery?
  3. Standard memberwolfgang59
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    06 Nov '18 00:55
    @whodey said
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97350149

    A little late, I know, but it just goes to show how government lied to us about it. Wilson was sending the UK arms, and as such, it was a legitimate military target.
    Your article is 10 years old and it was known well before that the Lusitania was
    carrying arms. The British tried to cover this up by depth-charging the wreck.
  4. Behind the scenes
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    06 Nov '18 02:20
    @whodey said
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97350149

    A little late, I know, but it just goes to show how government lied to us about it. Wilson was sending the UK arms, and as such, it was a legitimate military target.
    A little late, I know-

    Whodey, this happened on Friday, 7 May 1915. That's more than a LITTLE late.
  5. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 08:421 edit
    @wolfgang59 said
    Your article is 10 years old and it was known well before that the Lusitania was
    carrying arms. The British tried to cover this up by depth-charging the wreck.
    And yet it's still being used, amusingly enough mostly by people from whodey's own side, as an argument how Germans are Always Chaotic Evil and how The Kaiser was a proto-Hitler and Germany in WWI was already the Nazis, really. So the more it gets admitted that in WWI (and in stark contrast to WWII) the Allies were the bad guys just as much as the Axis, the better.
  6. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 10:01
    @whodey said
    https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97350149

    A little late, I know, but it just goes to show how government lied to us about it. Wilson was sending the UK arms, and as such, it was a legitimate military target.
    There was no reason to enter the war unless the USA became a puppet of the British Empire. Then it makes sense.
  7. Standard memberDeepThought
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    06 Nov '18 12:13
    @metal-brain said
    There was no reason to enter the war unless the USA became a puppet of the British Empire. Then it makes sense.
    Of course, and the Zimmerman telegram had nothing to do with it.
  8. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Nov '18 17:37
    @shallow-blue said
    And yet it's still being used, amusingly enough mostly by people from whodey's own side, as an argument how Germans are Always Chaotic Evil and how The Kaiser was a proto-Hitler and Germany in WWI was already the Nazis, really. So the more it gets admitted that in WWI (and in stark contrast to WWII) the Allies were the bad guys just as much as the Axis, the better.
    Actually I suspect it's the opposite - they are Nazi sympathizers who want to repair Germany's reputation.
  9. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 18:33
    @shallow-blue said
    And yet it's still being used, amusingly enough mostly by people from whodey's own side, as an argument how Germans are Always Chaotic Evil and how The Kaiser was a proto-Hitler and Germany in WWI was already the Nazis, really. So the more it gets admitted that in WWI (and in stark contrast to WWII) the Allies were the bad guys just as much as the Axis, the better.
    And yet it's still being used, amusingly enough mostly by people from whodey's own side

    Who is on whodey's "side"? Each person is unique, and has their own opinions.

    So the more it gets admitted that in WWI (and in stark contrast to WWII) the Allies were the bad guys just as much as the Axis, the better.

    A. Germany attacked Belgium, a neutral country, and subsequently committed war crimes, known as "the Rape of Belgium". Britain had guaranteed Belgian independence since the Treaty of London,1839. Germany attacked Belgium being perfectly aware of the repercussions (a British entry into the war) - Prussia had even signed the Treaty of London themselves.
    B. Germany broke the Hague conventions by using chemical weapons (chlorine gas). If they had not, a chemical war would have been avoided.
    C. Germany spitefully destroyed anything left in northern France when their army was finally being routed.
    D. Germany and its allies were known as the Central Powers during WW1, not the Axis.
  10. Standard memberDeepThought
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    06 Nov '18 18:45
    @ashiitaka said
    And yet it's still being used, amusingly enough mostly by people from whodey's own side

    Who is on whodey's "side"? Each person is unique, and has their own opinions.

    So the more it gets admitted that in WWI (and in stark contrast to WWII) the Allies were the bad guys just as much as the Axis, the better.

    A. Germany attacked Belgium, a neutral country ...[text shortened]... being routed.
    D. Germany and its allies were known as the Central Powers during WW1, not the Axis.
    I agree with points A and D, I have no comment on C (I don't know). Regarding B I'd replace the word "would" with "could", I don't think it's guaranteed.
  11. Joined
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    06 Nov '18 19:23
    @metal-brain said
    There was no reason to enter the war unless the USA became a puppet of the British Empire. Then it makes sense.
    You mean the other way 'round, I'm sure. Airstrip One, remember?
  12. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 19:54
    @athousandyoung said
    Actually I suspect it's the opposite - they are Nazi sympathizers who want to repair Germany's reputation.
    It's wrong to characterize everyone who criticizes the "Germany alone should be
    blamed for everything bad in the First World War" belief as a 'Nazi sympathizer'.

    During the First World War, German Jews were overwhelmingly patriotic and fought hard for the Vaterland.
    Indeed, to most Jews in eastern Europe, if there was a 'Jewish side' in the war, then
    it was the Central Powers, given that Tsarist Russia was notoriously anti-Semitic.
    German Jews were proud to fight against Russia in order to 'liberate' Jews there.
  13. SubscriberAThousandYoung
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    06 Nov '18 20:46
    @duchess64 said
    It's wrong to characterize everyone who criticizes the "Germany alone should be
    blamed for everything bad in the First World War" belief as a 'Nazi sympathizer'.

    During the First World War, German Jews were overwhelmingly patriotic and fought hard for the Vaterland.
    Indeed, to most Jews in eastern Europe, if there was a 'Jewish side' in the war, then
    it was the Centra ...[text shortened]... sly anti-Semitic.
    German Jews were proud to fight against Russia in order to 'liberate' Jews there.
    That is true. However in the USA today the people sending propaganda to whodey (which he always repeats here) tend to be Christian Identity Nazi sympathizers.
  14. Zugzwang
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    06 Nov '18 22:04
    @athousandyoung said
    That is true. However in the USA today the people sending propaganda to whodey (which he always repeats here) tend to be Christian Identity Nazi sympathizers.
    My interest is in writing about history, not about Whodey's supposed sources.
  15. Subscriberkmax87
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    06 Nov '18 22:28
    @whodey said

    And let's suppose Trump has told a billion lies. Are any of them as bad that cause such death and misery?
    Whodey, I'm beginning to suspect you are quite the Donald Trump fan!
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