@Indonesia-Phil saidYou are the guy with the argument .. Islam does xyz, but the Catholic Church did abc ... 500 years ago . Yeah that is an intellectually strong argument.
Two replies to my post, did I get under your skin or something? You're really clutching at straws which aren't there with this one, and there's the little insult which says it all. Intellectual weakness is to not look at the world objectively, but rather through the prism of personal belief and prejudice.
Also you dont know what is going on in the world of Islam if you need to use your own experience in Indonesia. That is the definition of personal belief and prejudice.
@my-king-and-i removed their quoted postMost people are unaware of the tariff bias over the decades between Canada and the US. Trump is just balancing the scales.
@my-king-and-i removed their quoted postThis is the problem. Its like spoilt children that refuse to grow up. Same with USAID, which they now consider a right rather than a privilege for which they should be grateful.
@Rajk999 saidYour first paragraph refers; your post misses the point of my observation.
You are the guy with the argument .. Islam does xyz, but the Catholic Church did abc ... 500 years ago . Yeah that is an intellectually strong argument.
Also you dont know what is going on in the world of Islam if you need to use your own experience in Indonesia. That is the definition of personal belief and prejudice.
Your second paragraph refers; conveying personal experience is not the same thing as expressing belief or prejudice, it is only conveying personal experience.
@Rajk999 saidHere's something which is loosely connected with our discussion. I read a news article recently regarding 80 young Afghani women who, through the good works of USAID, were receiving further education in Oman. Now that the aid has been withdrawn, they have to return to Afghanistan, where of course they will receive no education, and where they face an uncertain fate. (Women in Afghanistan currently refer to themselves as 'dead bodies moving around' ) In such small ways was the world being made a better place.
This is the problem. Its like spoilt children that refuse to grow up. Same with USAID, which they now consider a right rather than a privilege for which they should be grateful.
@Indonesia-Phil saidTough ... its their fault... not the specific women in question, but the fault of the people in general .. and of course there are people like you all over the world that tolerate Islam and make excuses and blame everyone else for their atrocities. Islam is a curse and needs to be eradicated from this world.
return to Afghanistan, where of course they will receive no education, and where they face an uncertain fate.
After the US exited Afganistan the Taliban should not be allowed to take control. Muslim people in general are docile when the Islamic extremists take over. These are the same people who shout Jihad and Death to America etc.
Tell me why they want USAID when they hate Americans?
@Rajk999 saidI don't recognize anything I've said in your first paragraph, apart from my 'tolerating' Islam, the same way that I 'tolerate' all religion. That said, and before you try to twist my words again (that's a low trick, by the way) I condemn all acts of violence and oppression, and I think it should be clear by now that I regard the Taliban as a violent and oppressive regime, so I think we can take that as agreed.
Tough ... its their fault... not the specific women in question, but the fault of the people in general .. and of course there are people like you all over the world that tolerate Islam and make excuses and blame everyone else for their atrocities. Islam is a curse and needs to be eradicated from this world.
After the US exited Afganistan the Taliban should not be allowed ...[text shortened]... e who shout Jihad and Death to America etc.
Tell me why they want USAID when they hate Americans?
That said, however, I'm certain that the vast majority of Muslims don't hate Americans, indeed I doubt if the vast majority of Muslims even think about Americans from one day/week/month to the next, and want only peace. Certainly the 80 young women we're discussing wouldn't hate Americans, and were grateful for the chance of a different and better life, which is no longer theirs to have. Hatred of all Americans can't be justified, any more than can hatred of all Muslims. I've met quite a few Americans in my life, and they've all been thoroughly decent people, but then so have all the Muslims that I've met.
People aren't born 'Muslims' or 'Christians' or anything else, it's all learned, and very largely a geographical and cultural lottery, so by all means let's eradicate the whole lot, and have a bit of a rethink.
This discussion in any case should be in 'Spirituality', so probably best knock it on the head.
@Indonesia-Phil saidA couple things we agree on and some we dont. If we can see the evil side of Islam, and many people can, then surely the people of Afganistan knew what would be their fate if they allowed to Taliban to take control. Instead, for whatever reason they gave up the fight after the US departed. They took the easy road. The president and many top ranking Afgans, in charge, stole millions and ran off. The soldiers fighting the Taliban gave up. This is what I meant when I said its their fault.
I don't recognize anything I've said in your first paragraph, apart from my 'tolerating' Islam, the same way that I 'tolerate' all religion. That said, and before you try to twist my words again (that's a low trick, by the way) I condemn all acts of violence and oppression, and I think it should be clear by now that I regard the Taliban as a violent and oppressive regi ...[text shortened]...
This discussion in any case should be in 'Spirituality', so probably best knock it on the head.
Of course I know not all Muslims hate Americans, and not all Muslims are extremists. That is irrelevant. 2% Extremists is enough to run amok in an Islamic state.
Mee toooo ... I always here people saying they meet Muslims. I have never met an extremist Muslim. But I know they exist and people who live in certain states have been very sorry and paying dearly for their indiscretion in allowing Islam to take over their country.
Trump is pretty stupid and he lack the diplomacy to handle these grants and aid which people got accustomed to receiving. He should not have suddenly cut it all off. A gradual process announcing cut off dates would have been far more palatable and less damaging.
@Rajk999 saidOkay so just to wrap things up from my end, thanks for the open, frank and civil discussion. A lot of contentious stuff gets aired on these forums, and things can get a bit narky, I find myself having to rein in the banter sometimes....Anyway, have a good one.
A couple things we agree on and some we dont. If we can see the evil side of Islam, and many people can, then surely the people of Afganistan knew what would be their fate if they allowed to Taliban to take control. Instead, for whatever reason they gave up the fight after the US departed. They took the easy road. The president and many top ranking Afgans, in charge, stole ...[text shortened]... f. A gradual process announcing cut off dates would have been far more palatable and less damaging.
@Indonesia-Phil saidThanks to you too. 🙂
Okay so just to wrap things up from my end, thanks for the open, frank and civil discussion. A lot of contentious stuff gets aired on these forums, and things can get a bit narky, I find myself having to rein in the banter sometimes....Anyway, have a good one.