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Debates Forum

  1. 16 Feb '13 10:21
    From the article below:
    In a step to close a loophole under which third countries could barter for oil, U.S. President Barack Obama last July signed an executive order that would allow him to penalize any company that helped Iran acquire gold or other precious metals.

    Any companies that did so could have their assets under U.S. jurisdiction frozen and be denied access to the U.S. financial system, a powerful deterrent to any bank or trading company.

    The European Union bars trade in gold, precious metals and diamonds with Iranian public bodies and with the central bank.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/15/us-iran-nuclear-gold-idUSBRE91E0TP20130215

    I think the USA sees gold as a threat to the US dollar's status as the world reserve currency. What say you?
  2. Standard member bill718
    Enigma
    17 Feb '13 08:28
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    From the article below:
    In a step to close a loophole under which third countries could barter for oil, U.S. President Barack Obama last July signed an executive order that would allow him to penalize any company that helped Iran acquire gold or other precious metals.

    Any companies that did so could have their assets under U.S. jurisdiction frozen a ...[text shortened]... SA sees gold as a threat to the US dollar's status as the world reserve currency. What say you?
    It looks like a prudent step aimed at a country that sponsers terrorism. You have a problem with that?
  3. 17 Feb '13 16:12
    Originally posted by bill718
    It looks like a prudent step aimed at a country that sponsers terrorism. You have a problem with that?
    The USA sponsors terrorism. Why don't you have a problem with that? Also, Iran does not have a nuclear weapons program. Leon Panetta has said that several times.

    Obama knows gold sanctions will not stop Iran from enriching uranium. Gold sanctions are meant to curb trading in gold, nothing more. This is solely meant to protect the US dollar's status as the world reserve currency.
  4. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    17 Feb '13 19:24
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    I think the USA sees gold as a threat to the US dollar's status as the world reserve currency. What say you?
    This isn't to do with the Dollar's reserve status. For one thing virtually every country in the world has gold reserves and the U.S. isn't likely to try to put up sanctions against everyone. There's two reasons I can think of, one is that by denying Iran precious metals the Iranians are left with nothing to back the Rial, which increases the risk of hyper-inflation and so weakens the government. The other possibility is that they are worried about mislabeling of uranium as gold.
  5. 17 Feb '13 20:49
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    This isn't to do with the Dollar's reserve status. For one thing virtually every country in the world has gold reserves and the U.S. isn't likely to try to put up sanctions against everyone. There's two reasons I can think of, one is that by denying Iran precious metals the Iranians are left with nothing to back the Rial, which increases the risk of hy ...[text shortened]... nment. The other possibility is that they are worried about mislabeling of uranium as gold.
    Points well made. Iran isn't a threat to the US $ status. Weakening Iran is more plausibly a rationale. I don't know about smuggling uranium as gold. Never seen yellow cake, but is it similar in density to gold? That part sounds a bit thin, but depending on the actual similarity in the metals, if it exists it could be the idea.
  6. 17 Feb '13 20:50
    Originally posted by Metal Brain
    From the article below:
    In a step to close a loophole under which third countries could barter for oil, U.S. President Barack Obama last July signed an executive order that would allow him to penalize any company that helped Iran acquire gold or other precious metals.

    Any companies that did so could have their assets under U.S. jurisdiction frozen a ...[text shortened]... SA sees gold as a threat to the US dollar's status as the world reserve currency. What say you?
    You're being a little paranoid again. The US seeks to weaken the Iranian regime and this is one way they hope to accomplish that goal.
  7. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    17 Feb '13 22:00
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    The other possibility is that they are worried about mislabeling of uranium as gold.
    U
    Someone scratches an A in front
    AU

    Its easily done!

  8. 17 Feb '13 22:14
    Originally posted by wolfgang59
    U
    Someone scratches an A in front
    AU

    Its easily done!

    A U! U funny!
  9. 18 Feb '13 14:05
    Originally posted by KazetNagorra
    You're being a little paranoid again. The US seeks to weaken the Iranian regime and this is one way they hope to accomplish that goal.
    I'll agree that the USA seeks to weaken the Iranian regime. I've been saying that for a long time. That is the real goal of sanctions. The USA government knows sanctions are rarely effective. It is not about curbing their uranium refining, it is about weakening them as much as possible so a military invasion goes more smoothly.

    You can't ignore that the USA prefers oil transactions to be done with US dollars though. They certainly want to keep gold transaction to a minimum. Your denial of this is naive.
  10. 18 Feb '13 14:53
    Just like I said, Iran has no interest in that offer and Obama knew it all along.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/18/us-iran-nuclear-idUSBRE91H09Z20130218
  11. 18 Feb '13 15:09
    Now Obama has imposed gold sanctions on North Korea.

    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/18/us-korea-north-eu-idUSBRE91H0E120130218
  12. 18 Feb '13 15:24
    Originally posted by bill718
    It looks like a prudent step aimed at a country that sponsers terrorism. You have a problem with that?
    So are you saying that it is aimed at the US? The US runs al qaeda you know.
  13. Standard member DeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    19 Feb '13 19:12
    Originally posted by normbenign
    Points well made. Iran isn't a threat to the US $ status. Weakening Iran is more plausibly a rationale. I don't know about smuggling uranium as gold. Never seen yellow cake, but is it similar in density to gold? That part sounds a bit thin, but depending on the actual similarity in the metals, if it exists it could be the idea.
    The density of gold (19.3 g/cm^3) and metallic uranium (19.1 g/cm^3) are almost identical, but I was thinking more along the lines of using the imports as cover rather than actually trying to disguise uranium as gold. It's a moot point anyway as Iran has a uranium mine at Saghand (32.313°N 55.530°E according to Wikipedia).
  14. 19 Feb '13 20:01
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    The density of gold (19.3 g/cm^3) and metallic uranium (19.1 g/cm^3) are almost identical, but I was thinking more along the lines of using the imports as cover rather than actually trying to disguise uranium as gold. It's a moot point anyway as Iran has a uranium mine at Saghand (32.313°N 55.530°E according to Wikipedia).
    I'm betting you are correct in the first place that such actions are aimed at simple weakening of the Iran economy.
  15. 19 Feb '13 20:13
    Originally posted by DeepThought
    This isn't to do with the Dollar's reserve status. For one thing virtually every country in the world has gold reserves and the U.S. isn't likely to try to put up sanctions against everyone. There's two reasons I can think of, one is that by denying Iran precious metals the Iranians are left with nothing to back the Rial, which increases the risk of hy ...[text shortened]... nment. The other possibility is that they are worried about mislabeling of uranium as gold.
    Lots of countries are buying gold and the USA doesn't like the trend, especially if it is by a country the USA wants to keep weak. It is partly about the US dollar's world reserve status at the very least.

    http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/petrogold-are-russia-and-china-hoarding-gold-because-they-plan-to-kill-the-petrodollar

    A lot of people on this forum think that gold is over valued but they are wrong. Central banks know how much currencies are devalued so they know better than anyone that gold is really undervalued if anything. That is why they are the main buyers of gold in the world.