"Peaceful coexistence in Israel hasn’t been shattered – it’s always been a myth"

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I followed this issue since the late 1960's. I don't know what the answer is.

I just don't - 😕

@mchill said
I don't know what the answer is.

Atheism.

@mchill said
I followed this issue since the late 1960's. I don't know what the answer is.

I just don't - 😕

I'm with you. (for once we agree)

I throw my hands up. Force is what made the chaotic situation, force will likely be needed to end it.

Clearly the Pals have to be made autonomous and Israel has been fighting that all along, the bastids.
I guess they just enjoy ruling omnipotently over them with an iron fist, and iron dome, and hateful attitudes.

@mchill said
I followed this issue since the late 1960's. I don't know what the answer is.

I just don't - 😕

Aye. It’s a bit of a monster.

The US keeps blocking anything the UN can do which would show teeth.
And this is mostly due to the Christian zionist lobby.

So, me thinks the deal can be made: All Palestinians leave Istael and Palestine and are housed in rhe US.
If the messiah doesn’t return within 10 years, all the Palestinians get sent back to Israel and all the Jews have to live in the US.
And never more a peep about it from the US.

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No, it is both political and religious.

Do you believe Zionism is a factor in Israeli-Palestinian relations? If so, you agree that religion is a significant part, since Zionism can be traced back to early Jewish religious beliefs.

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Texts from religious Jewish tests where God says the Jews are destined to inherit land not only predate Zionism but contributed directly to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Zionism

"Religious Zionism is an ideology that combines Zionism and Orthodox Judaism."

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Zionism

"Zionism originated in eastern and central Europe in the latter part of the 19th century, it is in many ways a continuation of the ancient attachment of the Jews and of the Jewish religion".

If you'd like to split hairs, I meant the roots of Zionism can be traced back to Judaism.

@earl-of-trumps said
I'm with you. (for once we agree)

I throw my hands up. Force is what made the chaotic situation, force will likely be needed to end it.

Clearly the Pals have to be made autonomous and Israel has been fighting that all along, the bastids.
I guess they just enjoy ruling omnipotently over them with an iron fist, and iron dome, and hateful attitudes.

Do you understand the irin dome is to protect innocent poeple from being killed by non-discriminate rockets fired from gaza?

seems like your german is creeping out

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I suggestyou start reading the Socialist Worker (UK) and watching DDN on youtube (independent reporting by the likes of Montbiot).

None of the Westernes here?
I’ve lived in bloody Israel. I don’t start a thread called “My poor Jerusalem” because of a love of the Israeli nation’s apartheid tactics.

I’ve explained my serious opinion on the matter hundreds of times on this forum.
Like a kid wih abusive parents growing up and abusing his own wife and kid, Israel is heavily traumatized nationally. It’s the exact same behaviour, on a national level.
To “solve” the problem you’d need to give national therapy. Which, I don’t believe, actually exists.

Putting pressure on a trauma victim generally only makes their behaviour worse.

Political goals (of the US, Russia, Middle-Eastern countries), historic goals (of the French, British and Ottoman empires... as recent historical goals) and religion complicate the matter tenfold.

And in the middle of this is the new national child, the Palestinians... ethnically cleansed, brutalized and another abuser in the making. Note: not that the Palestinians are children, just in the abusive relationship analogie.

The current 2-state solution is a farce. It’s basically a three state solution with 2 of the states not being viable.

Israel keeps stealing ever more territory, building walls and dividing up communities.
The UN can’t do anything because of the US’s ability to veto everything.

Now everyone is hailing yet another cease-fire. But it won’t last. Everyone knows this.
What if the current court case evicts the four Palestinian families? That is not going to go down well.
And even if the four families can stay in their homes, it’s a drip of oil on a sizzling plate of evictions and landgrab.

So, the question remains, what to do?

Does Israel have a right to exist?
Do Jews have a right to a homeland?
Do Jews have the right to not be persecuted in foreign lands because of their religion?
Do Palestinians have these same rights?

Now, everyone here knows I’m opposed to borders. And essentially this means a free-flow of people.
And in such, I don’t believe “groups” of people have a right to a certain piece of land; people can live where they want.
This doesn’t mean that if you live somewhere you can be evicted or that people can camp in your garden... just making sure the meta of the sentiment is grasped correctly.

Hence: no, Jews and Palestinians have no exclusive right to live in Palestine / Israel.
So it should be 1 country.
Neither will accept my view on it.

Jerusalem is a central hub for 3 of the world’s main religions. It is the ideal place to be the central hub of the world: make it UN headquarters and capital of the world.
Israel and Palestine need another capital / other capitals (because a single nation is not achievable).
Neither party will accept my view on it.

Like Northern Ireland, there is no actual solution which is to the liking of everyone or to even a majority large enough to rule out large groups using violence.

So, to draw the analogy of abuse one step further: what do you do when you can’t help an abused child in the home? You remove the child to safety.
And kids generally don’t want to leave, even if their parents are bastards.

The world has to intervene on behalf of the Palestinians.
And this is the only solution that I can think of that is ever going to work:
- All Palestinians must move to the US and Europe or any other UN nation of their choice.
- Each Palestinian is housed and receives a 250.000 euro start-up bonus from the UN.
- Israel pays each Palestinian household a 1500 euro monthly cheque for 20 years.
- Israel must remain an open society for religious holidays and tourists.

The circle of violence is ended, the UN and all the countries of the world are paying for their past mistakes, the Palestinians can live in freedom, housed and safe, holy sites are respected and Israel, by paying for 20 years, is hung out for history’s sake as the example of ethnic cleansing that she is, but gets to have her freedom as she wants.

I don’t actually see anything else ending the violence or solving the problem.