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Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 13:07
    https://taxfoundation.org/how-taxes-enabled-alcohol-prohibition-and-also-led-its-repeal

    From The Los Angeles Daily News interview with Lynn Novick, Burns’s co-documentarian:

    “I had no idea how important liquor was to the federal government,” says Novick. “It started in the Civil War with the levy on beer and whiskey to help fund the war, and it never really went away. Some 30 percent to 40 percent of the government’s income came from the tax on alcohol. So Prohibitionists realized that the only way they’re going to have a ban was through income tax, which was a progressive cause and was really supposed to distribute wealth and to make things equitable during the robber baron era, where the wealth was being accumulated in a very small segment of the population.”


    So essentially the Progressives decided to have a ban on alcohol knowing that it would prompt a movement to fund the government through an income tax. Then when prohibition came and they obtained their federal income tax, then they had no real interest in maintaining the prohibition, after which you saw state run liquor stores pop up all over the nation.

    So it was a win/win/win for Progressives.

    1. They obtained their federal income tax which forever dismantled federalism and the power of the states.
    2. Let Prohibition come and fail and later blame it on evangelical Christians.
    3. And later more or less corner the market on alcohol with state run liquor stores and higher sin taxes on alcohol.
  2. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 13:472 edits
    Next time you see one of those state run liquor stores selling alcohol to the general public for state profit, think of this

    https://www.morningsiderecovery.com/addiction-blog/alcohol-kills-more-than-any-other-drug/

    Alcohol kills more Americans every year than any other drug.

    For all you libertarians out there, is this proof that legalizing drugs simply makes things worse?
  3. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 14:29
    Before the Federal Income tax was passed, Progressives had been looking to create a Federal income tax for some time.

    On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional as a result of the case of Pollock v. Farmers‘ Loan and Trust Company. The lawsuit had been precipitated by the 1894 Income Tax Act. The Supreme Court’s 5-4 decision stated that a “direct tax” on the “income of real and of personal property” was “unconstitutional and void.”

    So since a federal income tax was unconstitutional, they simply had to add it to the Constitution. But no one likes change, so they had to create a crisis of sorts with decreased revenue coming into the Federal government that was needed.

    “Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini. In the collectivist sweep over a dozen minor countries of Europe, it was the cry of men striving to get on horseback. And 'emergency' became the justification of the subsequent steps. This technique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains.”

    -Herbert Hoover
  4. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 15:211 edit
    @whodey said
    Before the Federal Income tax was passed, Progressives had been looking to create a Federal income tax for some time.

    On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional as a result of the case of Pollock v. Farmers‘ Loan and Trust Company. The lawsuit had been precipitated by the 1894 Income Tax Act. The Supreme Court’s ...[text shortened]... ique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains.”

    -Herbert Hoover
    You quote Herbert Hoover: “Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.”

    I quote the US Federal Register: “Proclamation 9844 of February 15, 2019
    Declaring a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States
    A Proclamation
    The current situation at the southern border presents a border security and humanitarian crisis that threatens core national security interests and constitutes a national emergency. The southern border is a major entry point for criminals, gang members, and illicit narcotics. The problem of large-scale unlawful migration through the southern border is long-standing, and despite the executive branch's exercise of existing statutory authorities, the situation has worsened in certain respects in recent years. In particular, recent years have seen sharp increases in the number of family units entering and seeking entry to the United States and an inability to provide detention space for many of these aliens while their removal proceedings are pending. If not detained, such aliens are often released into the country and are often difficult to remove from the United States because they fail to appear for hearings, do not comply with orders of removal, or are otherwise difficult to locate. In response to the directive in my April 4, 2018, memorandum and subsequent requests for support by the Secretary of Homeland Security, the Department of Defense has provided support and resources to the Department of Homeland Security at the southern border. Because of the gravity of the current emergency situation, it is necessary for the Armed Forces to provide additional support to address the crisis.

    NOW, THEREFORE, I, DONALD J. TRUMP, by the authority vested in me by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, including sections 201 and 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.), hereby declare that a national emergency exists at the southern border of the United States, and that section 12302 of title 10, United States Code, is invoked and made available, according to its terms, to the Secretaries of the military departments concerned, subject to the direction of the Secretary of Defense in the case of the Secretaries of the Army, Navy, and Air Force. To provide additional authority to the Department of Defense to support the Federal Government's response to the emergency at the southern border, I hereby declare that this emergency requires use of the Armed Forces and, in accordance with section 301 of the National Emergencies Act (50 U.S.C. 1631), that the construction authority provided in section 2808 of title 10, United States Code, is invoked and made available, according to its terms, to the Secretary of Defense and, at the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, to the Secretaries of the military departments. I hereby direct as follows:

    Section 1. The Secretary of Defense, or the Secretary of each relevant military department, as appropriate and consistent with applicable law, shall order as many units or members of the Ready Reserve to active duty as the Secretary concerned, in the Secretary's discretion, determines to be appropriate to assist and support the activities of the Secretary of Homeland Security at the southern border.

    Sec. 2. The Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of the Interior, the Secretary of Homeland Security, and, subject to the discretion of the Secretary of Defense, the Secretaries of the military departments, shall take all appropriate Start Printed Page 4950actions, consistent with applicable law, to use or support the use of the authorities herein invoked, including, if necessary, the transfer and acceptance of jurisdiction over border lands.

    Sec. 3. This proclamation is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.

    IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand this fifteenth day of February, in the year of our Lord two thousand nineteen, and of the Independence of the United States of America the two hundred and forty-third.”

    His signature is affixed thereto.
  5. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '19 15:42
    @whodey said
    https://taxfoundation.org/how-taxes-enabled-alcohol-prohibition-and-also-led-its-repeal

    From The Los Angeles Daily News interview with Lynn Novick, Burns’s co-documentarian:

    “I had no idea how important liquor was to the federal government,” says Novick. “It started in the Civil War with the levy on beer and whiskey to help fund the war, and it never really went away. S ...[text shortened]... e or less corner the market on alcohol with state run liquor stores and higher sin taxes on alcohol.
    16th Amendment Income tax passed by Congress 1909, ratified by States 1913.

    18th Amendment Prohibition passed by Congress 1917, ratified by States 1919.

    Maybe some minimal amount of research would help make your ridiculous conspiracy theories look slightly less silly; you have firmly placed the cart before the horsey.
  6. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 18:52
    @js357 said
    You quote Herbert Hoover: “Every collectivist revolution rides in on a Trojan horse of 'emergency'. It was the tactic of Lenin, Hitler, and Mussolini.”

    I quote the US Federal Register: “Proclamation 9844 of February 15, 2019
    Declaring a National Emergency Concerning the Southern Border of the United States
    A Proclamation
    The current situation at the southern border presen ...[text shortened]... the United States of America the two hundred and forty-third.”

    His signature is affixed thereto.
    Obama declared the border situation a "crisis".

    https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683623555/president-obama-also-faced-a-crisis-at-the-southern-border

    Interesting, isn't it?
  7. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 18:54
    @no1marauder said
    16th Amendment Income tax passed by Congress 1909, ratified by States 1913.

    18th Amendment Prohibition passed by Congress 1917, ratified by States 1919.

    Maybe some minimal amount of research would help make your ridiculous conspiracy theories look slightly less silly; you have firmly placed the cart before the horsey.
    They had to fix the income problem before they could tackle ending their income source.
  8. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '19 18:54
    @whodey said
    Obama declared the border situation a "crisis".

    https://www.npr.org/2019/01/09/683623555/president-obama-also-faced-a-crisis-at-the-southern-border

    Interesting, isn't it?
    Yes, it's interesting that the Hoover quote and the Trump decree concerned a so-called "emergency" whereas now you are desperately trying to move the goalposts.
  9. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '19 18:552 edits
    @whodey said
    They had to fix the income problem before they could tackle ending their income source.
    LMAO! That exactly the opposite of what you claimed in your first few posts.

    Post 1: So essentially the Progressives decided to have a ban on alcohol knowing that it would prompt a movement to fund the government through an income tax.

    Post 3: But no one likes change, so they had to create a crisis of sorts with decreased revenue coming into the Federal government that was needed.
  10. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 18:571 edit
    @no1marauder said
    Yes, it's interesting that the Hoover quote and the Trump decree concerned a so-called "emergency" whereas now you are desperately trying to move the goalposts.
    Whether declaring an official emergency or not, things like health care and climate change are treated much in the same way, as an emergency.

    There is no real need to even declare an official emergency to have one, much like there is no reason to declare war now, like Obama going to war in Libya and saying he does not have to notify Congress under the War Powers Act because it is not really a war.

    These are the people you cherish.
  11. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '19 19:00
    @whodey said
    Whether declaring an official emergency or not, things like health care and climate change are treated much in the same way, as an emergency.

    There is no real need to even declare an official emergency to have one, much like there is no reason to declare war now, like Obama going to war in Libya and saying he does not have to notify Congress under the War Powers Act because it is not really a war.

    These are the people you cherish.
    These constant untrue accusations are boring and tiresome.

    You know I vehemently opposed the war in Libya.

    You know I didn't vote for Obama.

    Why do you feel the need to lie so incessantly?
  12. Joined
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    23 Jun '19 19:031 edit
    @no1marauder said
    These constant untrue accusations are boring and tiresome.

    You know I vehemently opposed the war in Libya.

    You know I didn't vote for Obama.

    Why do you feel the need to lie so incessantly?
    You say that you did not vote for Obama, and about the only anti-Obama thing I've heard you say is that Obama illegally went to war in Libya.

    Yet Trump is the bad guy that should be removed, the person you focus all your attention on cuz he is a Russian spy don't ya know.

    Very telling.
  13. Subscriberno1marauder
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    23 Jun '19 19:43
    @whodey said
    You say that you did not vote for Obama, and about the only anti-Obama thing I've heard you say is that Obama illegally went to war in Libya.

    Yet Trump is the bad guy that should be removed, the person you focus all your attention on cuz he is a Russian spy don't ya know.

    Very telling.
    I really miss the rolling eyes emoji.
  14. SubscriberSuzianne
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    24 Jun '19 01:34
    @whodey said
    Before the Federal Income tax was passed, Progressives had been looking to create a Federal income tax for some time.

    On May 21, 1895, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a direct tax on personal income was unconstitutional as a result of the case of Pollock v. Farmers‘ Loan and Trust Company. The lawsuit had been precipitated by the 1894 Income Tax Act. The Supreme Court’s ...[text shortened]... ique of creating emergency is the greatest achievement that demagoguery attains.”

    -Herbert Hoover
    Herbert Hoover, the man who brought us the Great Depression six months after his inauguration because he deregulated the banking industry?

    THAT 'Herbert Hoover'? He created quite the 'emergency' himself, no? Demagoguery? I guess he should know.

    And was the SC as stacked conservative in 1895 as it is today? Probably more so.
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