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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. 06 Aug '09 20:08 / 3 edits
    I just had a novel idea. Why not place a law on the books that mandates that any and EVERY peice of legislation that Congress is going to vote on be made public information before they get to vote on it? The new health care plan is a perfect example. Why not post it on the web somewhere in its entirety so that everyone has a chance to review it and know whether they are in favor of it or whether they wish to contact their represetative as to how they wish them to vote upon it?

    I think the Obama administration is being disingenous over saying they are concerned with disinformation over the new health care bill. After all, they didn't even want to give the Congressional members time to read it and debate it let alone the average Joe know what is inside it. In short, where in the @$$@ is all this transparency!!

    In terms of other bills, I think it would be a real eye opener into the twisted corrupt world of American politics if people had easy access to viewing the pork and reckless spending that goes on in Washington on a daily basis. The new health care proposal, however, is just the tip of the ice burg. Unfortunatly for them, however, this new propsal effects us all on such a personal level that to do business as usual with this legislation is showing itself to be an unwise approach, to say the least. In fact, they might even be forced to head it themselves!!
  2. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 20:09
    Originally posted by whodey
    I just had a novel idea. Why not place a law on the books that mandates that any and EVERY peice of legislation that Congress is going to vote on be made public information before they get to vote on it? The new health care plan is a perfect example. Why not post it on the web somewhere in its entirety so that everyone has a chance to review it and know wh ...[text shortened]... unwise approach, to say the least. In fact, they might even be forced to head it themselves!!
    I believe it is public record once it's proposed.
  3. 06 Aug '09 20:10
    Originally posted by sh76
    I believe it is public record once it's proposed.
    Where can you access the proposed health care bill in its entirety?
  4. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 20:14 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by whodey
    Where can you access the proposed health care bill in its entirety?
    Probably somewhere on this site:

    http://www.govtrack.us/



    Edit: Here it is, HR 3200

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3200

    Have fun reading it. It's 1,017 pages long (you can download the pdf from that page).
  5. 06 Aug '09 20:27
    Originally posted by sh76
    Probably somewhere on this site:

    http://www.govtrack.us/



    Edit: Here it is, HR 3200

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-3200

    Have fun reading it. It's 1,017 pages long (you can download the pdf from that page).
    Have you read the entire thing?
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    06 Aug '09 20:31 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by whodey
    Have you read the entire thing?
    No. If I had that kind of time, I'd do something less useful.

    Seems though, that someone beat you to it with the idea in your OP. Good idea, though.
  7. 06 Aug '09 21:11
    Originally posted by whodey
    Have you read the entire thing?


    and that's just from reading the table of contents...
    Anyone who looks at this and makes an attempt to read all of it -- I feel your pain.

    How much of this stuff really needs to be in this bill? I'm sure they could remove like 800 pages of it without changing anything essential -- and it would be a lot easier for the people to read it and comment on it.
  8. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    06 Aug '09 21:46
    Originally posted by whodey
    I just had a novel idea. Why not place a law on the books that mandates that any and EVERY peice of legislation that Congress is going to vote on be made public information before they get to vote on it? The new health care plan is a perfect example. Why not post it on the web somewhere in its entirety so that everyone has a chance to review it and know wh ...[text shortened]... unwise approach, to say the least. In fact, they might even be forced to head it themselves!!
    Why do you always think so small? Why not think BIG for a change? Your idea isn't novel. It's boring. Here's a novel idea for you:

    Phase in direct democracy. Or make some small allowances for it, at least.

    There are 435 members in the House of Representatives and 100 in the Senate. Why not increase that number of votes by, say, 10% (to 479 and 110) with those extra votes being allocated directly to the people? For each bill that comes up for a vote, the American people get 10% of the vote. If they can get millions of people to vote for something as ignorant as American Idol, there's no reason they couldn't organize online voting for pending legislation. The extra 44 votes in the House and 10 in the Senate could be assigned as a bloc (winner take all), or in proportion to the vote. If it works out well, in ten years you could up the percentage by another 10%.

    Now THAT'S a novel idea, my friend. You see how true geniuses think?
  9. 07 Aug '09 02:37
    Originally posted by Melanerpes


    and that's just from reading the table of contents...
    Anyone who looks at this and makes an attempt to read all of it -- I feel your pain.

    How much of this stuff really needs to be in this bill? I'm sure they could remove like 800 pages of it without changing anything essential -- and it would be a lot easier for the people to read it and comment on it.
    Well that is just it. They can show us the legislation, but what does it tell us? There are three things to consider when looking at this dribble.

    1. The very length of it underminds any attempt to tackle reading it.
    2. Assuming you do read it, can you translate it into laymans terms?
    3. Assuming you can translate it into laymans terms, can you then translate it into how this will effect the average Joe and business owner and the overall economy?

    Having said that, we are then stuck with a he said she said interpretation of what it all means. No wonder these Congressmen don't bother reading any of it.
  10. 07 Aug '09 02:40 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by rwingett
    Why do you always think so small? Why not think BIG for a change? Your idea isn't novel. It's boring. Here's a novel idea for you:

    Phase in direct democracy. Or make some small allowances for it, at least.

    There are 435 members in the House of Representatives and 100 in the Senate. Why not increase that number of votes by, say, 10% (to 479 and 110) w e by another 10%.

    Now THAT'S a novel idea, my friend. You see how true geniuses think?
    So have you raed this legislation all the way through? If not, would you vote for it simply because they are socializing? If you did read it, however, did you understand it all and be confident about what you are voting for?