Within our species, there's nothing quite so binary as XX and XY; leaving aside other complexities and issues of gender reassignment, ( since we're discussing sport) 'biological men' have evolved to generally be stronger, faster, taller and so on than women. Different musculature, which doesn't go away with gender reassignment. A 'woman' who was born a man might win Olympic gold in the 100m Freestyle women's event, but might be lucky to come within the top 1000 in an an all - male equivalent. Imagine 15 'biological men' pitted against 15 women in a women's Rugby Union game, it would be carnage....Common sense has to prevail, other forms of 'equality' aside, as regards sport, we are as we were born, elsewhere lies madness. And don't get me going on mixed changing rooms...
@Indonesia-Phil saidBelieve it or not I only have love and compassion for these people, but very much disagree with the things I’ve mentioned. It’s also ridiculous that a male teacher or any other male that says their a woman true or not can use girls and women’s facilities while in school from kindergarten up, when is this craziness going to stop??
Within our species, there's nothing quite so binary as XX and XY; leaving aside other complexities and issues of gender reassignment, ( since we're discussing sport) 'biological men' have evolved to generally be stronger, faster, taller and so on than women. Different musculature, which doesn't go away with gender reassignment. A 'woman' who was born a man might win Ol ...[text shortened]... t, we are as we were born, elsewhere lies madness. And don't get me going on mixed changing rooms...
@Indonesia-Phil saidPhil: Different musculature, which doesn't go away with gender reassignment.
Within our species, there's nothing quite so binary as XX and XY; leaving aside other complexities and issues of gender reassignment, ( since we're discussing sport) 'biological men' have evolved to generally be stronger, faster, taller and so on than women. Different musculature, which doesn't go away with gender reassignment. A 'woman' who was born a man might win Ol ...[text shortened]... t, we are as we were born, elsewhere lies madness. And don't get me going on mixed changing rooms...
This comment is simply incorrect where such gender reassignment is accompanied by treatments which reduce testosterone:
"Feminizing hormone therapy is used to make physical changes in the body that are caused by female hormones during puberty. Those changes are called secondary sex characteristics. This hormone therapy can help better align the body with a person's gender identity. Feminizing hormone therapy also is called gender-affirming hormone therapy.
Feminizing hormone therapy involves taking medicine to block the action of the hormone testosterone. It also includes taking the hormone estrogen. Estrogen lowers the amount of testosterone the body makes. It also triggers the development of feminine secondary sex characteristics. Feminizing hormone therapy can be done alone or along with feminizing surgery."
"Feminizing hormone therapy is used to change the body's hormone levels. Those hormone changes trigger physical changes that help better align the body with a person's gender identity."
https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/feminizing-hormone-therapy/about/pac-20385096
In several of the recent cases right wingers have most vocally complained about, the transgender woman athlete was required by rule to undergo at least a year of such treatments before being permitted to compete in women's events.
And transgender women have hardly easily swept away any and all competition when allowed to enter women's events; the House hearing Friday in support of this law focused on a transgender woman fencer who finished 24th out of 38 in a recent tournament and was crushed by higher rated cisgender athlete 5-0. That did not stop the Republican members of the committee insisting she was a "man" who had an unfair advantage.
EDIT: Posted this 36 days ago in another thread:
"Redmond Sullivan has a losing record this year: https://fencingtracker.com/p/100286459/Redmond-Sullivan/history
Her percentage of wins this season - 42.9% - is slightly lower than when Redmond competed in the Men's events in 2022-23.
At the Cherry Blossom, she lost to the 2nd seed Erica Hooshi 5:0 (don't know much about fencing, but that sounds bad)."
@Indonesia-Phil saidOne should also be careful about making categorical statements; 5 biological males from the local playground wouldn't stand a chance against a WNBA team. When considering the issue as a whole, it should be noted that the transgender women in question aren't competing against "average" cisgender ones but against elite athletes at the events in question. Thus the question should be do transgender women athletes have any significant innate advantage over cisgender ones competing in the same event and even if they do can it be mitigated by measures such as the type of hormone suppression therapy mentioned in my last post. Research into this seems very limited.
Within our species, there's nothing quite so binary as XX and XY; leaving aside other complexities and issues of gender reassignment, ( since we're discussing sport) 'biological men' have evolved to generally be stronger, faster, taller and so on than women. Different musculature, which doesn't go away with gender reassignment. A 'woman' who was born a man might win Ol ...[text shortened]... t, we are as we were born, elsewhere lies madness. And don't get me going on mixed changing rooms...
Politicians have no expertise in such matters and should stay out of it.
@no1marauder said"do transgender women athletes have any significant innate advantage over cisgender ones '
One should also be careful about making categorical statements; 5 biological males from the local playground wouldn't stand a chance against a WNBA team. When considering the issue as a whole, it should be noted that the transgender women in question aren't competing against "average" cisgender ones but against elite athletes at the events in question. Thus the question ...[text shortened]... his seems very limited.
Politicians have no expertise in such matters and should stay out of it.
only a fool would ask that question
@Mott-The-Hoople saidNo, only a fool would answer it without even looking at any scientific evidence.
"do transgender women athletes have any significant innate advantage over cisgender ones '
only a fool would ask that question
For Joe:
" The disproportionate focus on the relatively small portion of the population who are trans seems based on the belief that cis men, who cannot succeed in sports among other cis men, would choose to misidentify as trans women to gain an advantage in sports against cis women. However, there are no legitimate cases of this occurring." https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10641525/
The entire article is a good one showing the issue of whether transgender women athletes have any advantage over elite cisgender women athletes is a complex one and that even if they do whether that is "unfair" is an open question. The sentences before the above quote spell that out:
"There are wide variations within cisgender populations, even when excluding individuals with differences in sexual development (121, 139). It is expected that about 2.3% of a normally distributed population is likely to fall above two standard deviations from a population mean. These exceptional individuals may be those who are gifted and excel at some sport or athletic performance (121, 135, 140). In contrast only 0.5%–0.6% of the population identify as trans (60). There is no concern for restricting individuals who are exceptionally large or small, those who are genetically gifted, or those with differing hormone concentrations or muscle mass, so long as their gender and biologic sex align (120, 121). "
So we have both whether transgender athletes have any advantage unclear and whether this would be any more unfair than other advantages athletes in skill competitions possess. These are clearly not issues members of Congress have any level of expertise in to dictate to every sports organization in the country about.
@no1marauder saida fool needs science to differentiate between a man and a woman
No, only a fool would answer it without even looking at any scientific evidence.
your queerness has messed up your thinking
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@no1marauder saidOMG your level of SUCK is ridiculous.
No, only a fool would answer it without even looking at any scientific evidence.
Just how stupid are you?
@Cliff-Mashburn saidYou clowns really "think" at the level of children (and not very bright children) at best.
OMG your level of SUCK is ridiculous.
Just how stupid are you?
Try actually reading some of the links I have provided rather than insisting on being simple minded rubes; the question as to whether transgender women athletes have any real advantage over cisgender athletes is an open scientific question.
You and the others are basing your uneducated opinions on little more than your hatred and disgust of transgender people.
@Cliff-Mashburn saidCliff marauder has been to the school for contrarians and I think he’s using us as a project on which to write his thesis.
Just the kind of thing I'd expect you to say.
The Bill is to prevent MEN from competing in girl's sports.
Putting on makeup and a dress and calling yourself a woman doesn't make you a female.
If I tell him I live in a small town where the town council has sent people out to get $50 from each family to go towards paying for the tuition of all the local children that are in college…. He would say what is wrong with that.
@Mott-The-Hoople saidHere's a question:
a fool needs science to differentiate between a man and a woman
your queerness has messed up your thinking
A person is born with XY chromosomes and a vagina, uterus and fallopian tubes.
Male or female?
@no1marauder saidHere he interjects minority and majority as if it has one thing to do with your issue. It has nothing to do with your issue.
Members of a majority wanting a minority excluded is an insufficient reason under basic principles of equal protection.
I wonder if he knows secretary Hegseth has ordered all books about DEI and associated subjects to be pulled out of their libraries and taken to a warehouse.
He is clutching his pearls.
https://apnews.com/article/pentagon-hegseth-dei-library-books-770364ab99591402ddffe8758432ff26
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@no1marauder
How many of those have been born?
Point zero zero zero one PERCENT of the population?
You re talking about a biologicl freak of nature.
Plese STFU.