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Debates Forum

  1. Zugzwang
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    11 Jul '18 00:461 edit
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung to Ash
    There's a lot of Germanic influence on the descendants of the Western Franks but they are ultimately a Latin people.
    Modern Germans are not the same people as the Germanic people described by Tacitus.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germania_(book)

    "Tacitus himself had never travelled in the Germanic lands; all his information is second-hand at best."
  2. Joined
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    11 Jul '18 18:081 edit
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    During the First World War, Germany had a reputation as about the least anti-Jewish society in Europe.
    German Jews were patriotic and proud to fight for the Vaterland against, say, Tsarist Russia,
    which was notoriously anti-Jewish.

    During the First World War, a German Jewish officer recommended that Hitler be decorated for bravery.
    After he took pow ...[text shortened]... racist ideology.
    After all, Hitler allied with the Japanese, whom he called 'honorary Aryans'.
    I believe he also regarded other East Asians (Chinese and Koreans) as equal to the Germanic peoples. If I recall correctly, he even thought that they had a superior history to the Germanic peoples.
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
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    11 Jul '18 18:28
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    I think Hitler moderated his opinion of the British when they criticized France's occupation of the Ruhr when Germany failed to pay up on time. Plus the English and some Scots are Germanic peoples while the French are not, so there's always the Hitler racial factor to consider.

    I believe he also thought that Britain saw the treaty of Versailles as too ...[text shortened]... ally knew little of the country and its culture. He referred to the United Kingdom as "England".
    Just a point on your last sentence, referring to the United Kingdom as England was historically quite common and uncontroversial - being before the era of identity politics. Witness Nelson's transmission: "England expects that every man will do his duty.", despite most of his crews being Irish.
  4. Zugzwang
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    11 Jul '18 22:27
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    I believe he also regarded other East Asians (Chinese and Koreans) as equal to the Germanic peoples.
    If I recall correctly, he even thought that they had a superior history to the Germanic peoples.
    As far as I know, Hitler admired racist US immigration laws, which were aimed at excluding
    East Asians (particularly Chinese).

    While Hitler had some respect for the Japanese (such as for defeating Russia in a war),
    he did not seriously regard them or other East Asians as racially equal to the Germans.
  5. Joined
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    11 Jul '18 22:42
    Originally posted by @duchess64
    As far as I know, Hitler admired racist US immigration laws, which were aimed at excluding
    East Asians (particularly Chinese).

    While Hitler had some respect for the Japanese (such as for defeating Russia in a war),
    he did not seriously regard them or other East Asians as racially equal to the Germans.
    Pride in one’s race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their history is superior to our own.
    - Hitler ( I think?)

    He was interested in China and Japan and Germany actually had closer economic ties to China than to Japan. I believe some Kuomintang forces were trained in Germany. Hitler chose Japan over China because he thought their military better than China's.
  6. Zugzwang
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    11 Jul '18 23:07
    Originally posted by @ashiitaka
    Pride in one’s race – and that does not imply contempt for other races – is also a normal and healthy sentiment. I have never regarded the Chinese or the Japanese as being inferior to ourselves. They belong to ancient civilizations, and I admit freely that their history is superior to our own.
    - Hitler ( I think?)

    He was interested in China and Japan ...[text shortened]... in Germany. Hitler chose Japan over China because he thought their military better than China's.
    Can Ash please cite a detailed source for his quotation?

    It's well-known that Hitler condemned the Soviets in racial terms as 'Asiatics' and 'Mongols'.
    The Nazis tended to treat captured Soviet Asian POWs more harshly than any others except for Jews.
    The fighting between the Waffen-SS and Soviet Asians was driven by racial hatred, no quarter given.

    It's well-known that Hitler had a record of insincere self-serving statements.
    If HItler truly believed in racial equality between even the Japanese and Germans, then why
    was there an incident when a Japanese diplomat sought permission to marry a German woman?
    The Nazis argued about whether they should refuse permission and risk offending Japan
    or give permission and risk offending the more zealous (or principled) racists among them.

    "I believe some Kuomintang forces were trained in Germany."
    --Ash

    Yes. It was a business proposition. Germany trained some Chinese officers and pilots.
    China was Germany's main supplier of tungsten (wolfram), vital for German war industry.
    In exchange, Germany offered the Chinese some of the best available military training.

    German military advisers served Chiang Kai-shek. The first German officer to be killed
    in action in the 1930s died while helping the Chinese fight Japan in the Battle of Shanghai.
    After Hitler decided to ally with Japan and ordered German advisers to return home,
    some of them (having private anti-Nazi views) refused and stayed in China.

    The first US citizen to become a fighter ace after the First World War was Arthur Chin,
    a Chinese American (his mother was a Latina) who was trained by the Luftwaffe and
    fought for China against Japan. Mostly flying a British Gloster Gladiator biplane, he
    shot down 8.5 aircraft.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Chin

    "Chin is recognized as America's first ace in World War II. A half-century after the war ended,
    the U.S. government recognized Chin as an American veteran by awarding him the
    Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal."
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