Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Joined
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    25 Oct '16 22:48
    So we've all heard the "locker room talk" (I played sports in high school, and even some in college and I never heard talk like that, but anyway) where he talked about having been able to grab women by the pussy because he's famous. So it seems there are two possibilities.

    1. He's a sexual predator.

    2. He's a bragging liar who cheers sexual assault from the sideline in appreciation of rape culture.

    I don't really see any third option, do you? If not, which is it?
  2. Behind the scenes
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    25 Oct '16 23:04
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    So we've all heard the "locker room talk" (I played sports in high school, and even some in college and I never heard talk like that, but anyway) where he talked about having been able to grab women by the pussy because he's famous. So it seems there are two possibilities.

    1. He's a sexual predator.

    2. He's a bragging liar who cheers sexual assault f ...[text shortened]... reciation of rape culture.

    I don't really see any third option, do you? If not, which is it?
    So, we have a lying, foul mouthed, braggart vs a lying, politically correct, career politician. So who is the better choice? I don't want to think about it. I'm going to read some inspirational quotes, and make supper. 😞
  3. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 02:21
    Bzzzt. Nonanswer. Was Trump lying or telling the truth? Simple question.
  4. Zugzwang
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    26 Oct '16 02:244 edits
    Originally posted by Kunsoo
    So we've all heard the "locker room talk" (I played sports in high school, and even some in college and I never heard talk like that, but anyway) where he talked about having been able to grab women by the pussy because he's famous. So it seems there are two possibilities.

    1. He's a sexual predator.
    2. He's a bragging liar who cheers sexual assault f reciation of rape culture.

    I don't really see any third option, do you? If not, which is it?
    I have long been a critic rather than a defender of Donald Trump, a sexist pathological liar.
    But more than a few athletes (from high school to pro levels) have been accused of rape or sexual assault.
    And many people (varying from feminist academics to even some male athletes) have pointed
    out there's some correlation between American male sports culture and rape culture.

    http://www.sott.net/article/319472-Rape-culture-Study-finds-college-athletes-views-about-women-used-to-justify-sexual-assault

    "Rape Culture: Study Finds College Athletes' Views About Women Used to Justify Sexual Assault"
    --Matt Shipman (2 June 2016)

    "...half of study participants on intercollegiate and recreational athletic teams and more
    than a third of non-athletes reported engaging in sexual coercion, including rape."

    "Previous research has shown that *male college athletes are more likely than college
    students in general* to commit sexual violence or engage in sexual coercion."

    Kunsoo, although you may never heard of other young men boast about their sexual assaults,
    you should keep in mind that they might have done it without trusting you enough to tell you.
    You have introduced some anecdotal evidence as one data point.

    I also would point out that men typically don't tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
    but their truth about their sexual experiences with women. When a male athlete boasts
    about 'scoring' with a pretty cheerleader, for instance, she might have been as willing,
    indeed, eager to give herself to him as he claims. But he might also have preferred not
    to mention the parts where she pleaded for him to stop and cried after sexual intercourse.

    If Brock Turner (a college athlete convicted of sexual assault) were to boast in the locker
    room about his '20 minutes of action' (to quote his loving father), then I suspect that he
    would avoid mentioning the fact that the woman (his victim) was unconscious.

    Donald Trump's morally reprehensible in his attitudes of sexual entitlement toward women.
    But let's not pretend that many other men don't have attitudes of sexual entitlement.
  5. Standard memberRemoved
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    26 Oct '16 02:39
    What Is more important, Trump has a problem with woman or electing a woman who is an alleged criminal.? She has done far worse.
  6. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Oct '16 04:41
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I have long been a critic rather than a defender of Donald Trump, a sexist pathological liar.
    But more than a few athletes (from high school to pro levels) have been accused of rape or sexual assault.
    And many people (varying from feminist academics to even some male athletes) have pointed
    out there's some correlation between American male sports cultu ...[text shortened]... rd women.
    But let's not pretend that many other men don't have attitudes of sexual entitlement.
    Still, I would have a hard time making any connection between Donald Trump and 'sports figures', especially since I don't buy his nonsense that what he said on that tape was nothing more than "locker room talk". What it really was is a sexual predator bragging about his exploiting women.

    In a world where an enthusiastic scream can bring down Howard Dean's campaign, I cannot believe the army of white males willing to give this sexual predator a pass. It's disgusting and troubling.
  7. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Oct '16 04:44
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    What Is more important, Trump has a problem with woman or electing a woman who is an alleged criminal.? She has done far worse.
    There is no evidence of this despite all the wet dreams of those who are willing to give a sexual predator a pass.
  8. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 12:16
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    There is no evidence of this despite all the wet dreams of those who are willing to give a sexual predator a pass.
    The sexual predator pass is owned by Bill Clinton and there are no signs he is willing to surrender it.
  9. SubscriberSuzianne
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    26 Oct '16 12:29
    Originally posted by whodey
    The sexual predator pass is owned by Bill Clinton and there are no signs he is willing to surrender it.
    One more time, whodey... Bill Clinton is not running.

    Can you explain to me exactly what Bill Clinton did that makes it okay for Donald Trump to sexually assault a dozen women and get away with it?

    I can't really be convinced that Bill Clinton even viciously raping a thousand women would actually make it okay for Donald Trump to sexually assault a dozen women, and then brag about it. And if you think it does, then you're just as sick as he is.
  10. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 12:523 edits
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    One more time, whodey... Bill Clinton is not running.

    Can you explain to me exactly what Bill Clinton did that makes it okay for Donald Trump to sexually assault a dozen women and get away with it?

    I can't really be convinced that Bill Clinton even viciously raping a thousand women would actually make it okay for Donald Trump to sexually assault a doz ...[text shortened]... en, and then brag about it. And if you think it does, then you're just as sick as he is.
    Neither Bill or Trump will face any jail time or legal penalty for anything they are accused of.

    They are simply too powerful

    My guess is that you don't care. All you care about is the election. That's why you brought up the bit about Bill not running.

    Well guess what, I could care less about your stupid election. These women need justice.
  11. Standard memberRemoved
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    26 Oct '16 17:19
    Originally posted by Suzianne
    There is no evidence of this despite all the wet dreams of those who are willing to give a sexual predator a pass.
    There is no evidence of the Trump allegations either.
  12. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 18:47
    Originally posted by whodey
    The sexual predator pass is owned by Bill Clinton and there are no signs he is willing to surrender it.
    Bill Clinton is not running for President.
  13. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 18:52
    Originally posted by Phranny
    Bill Clinton is not running for President.
    Why does American politics have dynasties? It's quite beyond me... First the Bushes, now the Clintons...
  14. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 18:55
    Originally posted by checkbaiter
    There is no evidence of the Trump allegations either.
    Trump is recorded admitting to kissing and grabbing women at will.

    "Yeah, that’s her. With the gold. I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know, I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything.

    Bush: Whatever you want.

    Trump: Grab ’em by the pussy. You can do anything."

    I doubt you will find any recorded comments by Bill Clinton. The women with whom we know he was involved were well over 18 and consented to his advances. The way he and his wife deal with these transgressions is their business. Most importantly, he is not running for POTUS.
  15. Joined
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    26 Oct '16 19:292 edits
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    I have long been a critic rather than a defender of Donald Trump, a sexist pathological liar.
    But more than a few athletes (from high school to pro levels) have been accused of rape or sexual assault.
    And many people (varying from feminist academics to even some male athletes) have pointed
    out there's some correlation between American male sports cultu ...[text shortened]... rd women.
    But let's not pretend that many other men don't have attitudes of sexual entitlement.
    I heard it in college actually. Another male student and I were leaving a classroom. I don't remember what the lecture topic was, but I remember the student laughing and saying something like, "It has to be hard being a woman. The way sex works to have a man plunging his thing into you has to be humiliating. Wouldn't it leave a bad taste in your mouth? You're just lying there while someone is piercing and pumping into you."

    I was kind of shocked just at the fact that he was finding humor in someone being humiliated, but I didn't even get to address that. I said, "First of all, why is it we see piercing as a more active action than engulfing?" I wanted to get to the point that the notion that one is more active than the other is contrary to geometry, and then I wanted to address the issue of taking humor if not pleasure in the thought of someone being humiliated. I wasn't even going to get into wondering what his sex life must be like, at least for his partners.

    Anyway, I only managed to finish that sentence before he put up his hands and said, "Whoa man, I didn't mean to offend you."

    I responded, "It's not a question of offending me..." But he said, "Never mind man" and walked away.

    That's the last time I remember hearing "locker talk," so yeah, probably certain men don't trust me with it. But I'm also pretty sure that most of the heterosexual men in my social circles don't talk that way, even if for no other reason than that the women in their lives wouldn't put up with it. Plus, I do think that once some men have daughters, it changes their perception. Sad that they didn't have the same respect for other women beforehand, but whatever it takes.

    One last point - even the guy I mentioned above while degrading women in his comment wasn't talking about anything non-consensual. I have never heard anyone brag about or express desire to rape or assault. I'm not saying men don't talk that way, I've just never been "entrusted" as you say.
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