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If I did not see it, I would not believe it. Robert Reich is caught on video spelling out his vision for health care back in 2007. Basically he says to the crowd, if a president were honest and not worried about getting elected, this is what they should do. The young and healthy will have to start paying out much more money for everyone elses health care. The aged that are on the verge of dying would be kept alive no longer, they are simply too expensive. And lastly, innovation in health care should come to a stand still. No longer will medicine be allowed to come up with costly innovations to keep us alive longer. In short, we will all live as long as our parents and no longer.
http:www.prisonplanet.com/robert-reich-on-health-care-old-people-have-to-die.html
Originally posted by whodeyPresumably this slice of provocative polemic was interwoven with a lot of other things he said to the crowd. Is there a particular reason why you are offering it to us here out of its context?
If I did not see it, I would not believe it. Robert Reich is caught on video spelling out his vision for health care back in 2007. Basically he says to the crowd, if a president were honest and not worried about getting elected, this is what they should do. The young and healthy will have to start paying out much more money for everyone elses health care. ...[text shortened]... no longer.
http:www.prisonplanet.com/robert-reich-on-health-care-old-people-have-to-die.html
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Originally posted by FMFI think the clip speaks for itself. The clip is about 3 minutes long and in its entirety, so its not like they are taking a slice here and there of what he is saying. Then again, if it were 3 hours long you could still say it were taken out of context. However, its kinda like the Reverend Wrights, "God Damn America" speech. There are so many ways you can take that out of context.
Presumably this slice of provocative polemic was interwoven with a lot of other things he said to the crowd. Is there a particular reason why you are offering it to us here out of its context?
Originally posted by whodeyExactly. So could you perhaps come up with a transcript of Reich's entire lecture or speech and refrain from taking 3 minute polemical fragments out of context?
Its kinda like the Reverend Wrights, "God Damn America" speech. There are so many ways you can take that out of context.
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I think he was saying that making an all-out effort to keep grandma alive an additional week or two is perhaps the main reason why healthcare expenditures are so high in the US, and will eventually consume the entire budget if they continue unchecked. The costs will continue to skyrocket as medicine comes up with all sorts of new, extremely expensive ways to keep grandma from moving on to a better place.
So if Medicare continues covering the costs of these efforts, the healthy people (i.e the taxpayers) will indeed be the ones footing this bill as it starts to swallow the rest of the federal budget.
He's also aware of how futile it will be for any politician to ever address this issue ("don't you DARE touch grandma's plug you #$%%&" ).
Originally posted by MelanerpesSo who makes such decisions? Who pulls the plug? Patients are suppose to make such decisions via living will etc, not anyone else. In fact, some people don't believe there is a better place to move on to. In fact, some think that this is all there is so they desire to hold on as long as possible. In addition, you can make predictions medically about ones life expectancy, but do know they are not always accurate.
[b]I think he was saying that making an all-out effort to keep grandma alive an additional week or two is perhaps the main reason why healthcare expenditures are so high in the US, and will eventually consume the entire budget if they continue unchecked. The costs will continue to skyrocket as medicine comes up with all sorts of new, extremely expensive ways to keep grandma from moving on to a better place.
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Originally posted by MelanerpesThat is correct. That is why as more people are covered the tax payers will have proportioanally increasing taxes. I just feel sorry for young people today, particularly, who are just trying to get extablished financially. It will continue to become harder and harder, especially with the declining job situation now. Perhaps some day kids may just decide to live in the basement of their parents house instead of trying to survive on their own financially.
[So if Medicare continues covering the costs of these efforts, the healthy people (i.e the taxpayers) will indeed be the ones footing this bill as it starts to swallow the rest of the federal budget.
Originally posted by whodeyWhoever it is that pays is the one who makes the decision.
So who makes such decisions? Who pulls the plug? Patients are suppose to make such decisions via living will etc, not anyone else. In fact, some people don't believe there is a better place to move on to. In fact, some think that this is all there is so they desire to hold on as long as possible. In addition, you can make predictions medically about ones life expectancy, but do know they are not always accurate.
If we decide that Medicare will cover the costs no matter how great - and modern technology keeps coming up with ever more expensive ways to extend grandma's life my an extra two days, then it'll be a matter of how long China will keep sending us the money. Which could become a major problem if the Chinese people should ever decide that their grandmas deserve the same technology.
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Originally posted by MelanerpesSo what if it were your grandma? In addition, not every case is the same even though they may be treated as such. That is one of the fears and rightly so.
He's also aware of how futile it will be for any politician to ever address this issue ("don't you DARE touch grandma's plug you #$%%&" ).[/b]
In addition, he also said that innovation in medicine to keep people alive longer and longer will come to abrupt end. They don't want to extend the lives of people medically any longer because of the cost. Of course, the potential quality of their lives during this extended life span is of little consequence to people such as Mr. Reich.
I can't help that feel that this type of thinking ties into many far left ideologies that I have encountered. Basically, it is the belief that mankind is destroying the world by their sheer numbers and/or lifestyles. Therefore, mankind needs to be herded like cattle and snuffed out by statists elitists in order to "save" the world environmentally and/or economically. In short, these elitists are more concerned with other things, such as the environment, than they are of human life. It reminds me of a woman who had an abortion so that her child would not make a "carbon footprint". These people are nothing short of mentally ill.
Originally posted by whodeyit probably would be a lot more economically efficient if children were to continue living with their parents (and grand parents).
That is correct. That is why as more people are covered the tax payers will have proportioanally increasing taxes. I just feel sorry for young people today, particularly, who are just trying to get extablished financially. It will continue to become harder and harder, especially with the declining job situation now. Perhaps some day kids may just decide t ...[text shortened]... ve in the basement of their parents house instead of trying to survive on their own financially.
For one, you'd only need about half the current number of buildings to house for the entire population. Money that currently gets spent on mortgage payments could be spent on more useful things. And with fewer building to heat and cool, you'd save a lot of money on electricity, gas, & oil. Fewer buildings would also mean more open space, which would be better for the environment.
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Originally posted by whodeyI seriously doubt that Reich wants to see an end to the medical innovations that actually adds quality time to a person's lifespan. Whatever it is that he said, I'm sure he was referring to situations were grandma is already extremely ill and is alive in only the technical sense, and the family just doesn't want to see her actually die.
So what if it were your grandma? In addition, not every case is the same even though they may be treated as such. That is one of the fears and rightly so.
In addition, he also said that innovation in medicine to keep people alive longer and longer will come to abrupt end. They don't want to extend the lives of people medically any longer because of the hild would not make a "carbon footprint". These people are nothing short of mentally ill.
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Originally posted by sh76But what if keeping that person alive requires spending money that you don't have?
I will say that the prospect of any government policy that gives any bureaucrat the power to determine that a person is not worth keeping alive and therefore the authority to "pull the plug" on that person, scares me greatly.
You are then at the mercy of the bureaucrats in charge of whoever's deep pockets you're relying on.
Become a multi-billionaire and you get to make all your own decisions
Originally posted by MelanerpesThe same logic applies to a 6 year old who needs a bone marrow transplant. If the government is going to pay for his operation so that he can live another 80 years, I don't like the idea of the government refusing to keep grandma alive for one more year.
But what if keeping that person alive requires spending money that you don't have?
You are then at the mercy of the bureaucrats in charge of whoever's deep pockets you're relying on.
Become a multi-billionaire and you get to make all your own decisions