Scary defeat for Dems in NYC in special election

Originally posted by Kunsoo
The Ryan Plan, if passed, would have made MediCare voluntary, which would have destroyed it.

If making something voluntary would destroy it, then perhaps it isn't so good. Most people would support voluntarily a good plan.

Originally posted by Kunsoo
It would only take a fraction of people leaving the program to kill it. So seventy percent want it, thirty percent walk - it's privatized.

And hey, you can argue that it's good or bad. But it would destroy MediCare.

So you argue that a "good" program requires force for it to work?

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
I personally don't think the main issue was that it is made voluntary, although that was an issue.

From what I understand the Ryan plan would change Medicare to be a voucher program where the voucher would essentially be a flat value. The problem is then that as the cost of healthcare goes up, you get screwed and medicare becomes less and less effecti ...[text shortened]... ely will provide his own answer, but I guess I felt like sticking my two cents into the pot 🙂

"wouldn't have the overhead or profit motive"

And therefore wouldn't have the discipline to keep costs contained.

Originally posted by Kunsoo
Except that it has with regard to Medicare. Medicare is much more efficient than the insurance companies. Insurance companies do not operate like other private businesses. There is a premium in inefficiency on their part.

Medicare is much more efficient, and must less top heavy than any private insurance counterparts. Do I really need to source that? ...[text shortened]... eople who made the switch would be screwed, or the system would be undone. Great choices.

Medicare costs in the very first year were 10X their projected amount. The program is going broke.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Turnout was really low even for a special election; less than 20% of registered voters, about half of the turnout in 2010 and less than a third of turnout in 2008. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20106163-503544.html
So it's hard to say that this is some harbinger of doom for Obama in 2012. The district is a lot more conservative than adjoining o ...[text shortened]... aised as a campaign issue among the socially conservative Jews of this particular district.

I do have to say that the attitude of some in the New York Jewish community that Obama has been so terrible to Israel is silly and baffling. All Obama basically did was re-state what has been the basic policy of most American and Israeli administrations for the last 40 years, albeit with a bit less tact.

The gay marriage issue was in fact another big issue in the campaign. Many rabbis in the area supported Turner (a Catholic) over Weprin, an Orthodox Jew, because of his gay marriage vote. Another petty and baffling position.

Still, that a solid Dem district could so handily fall into GOP hands for the first time in 8 decades has to be of concern. Plus, in the NV-2 race where the Republican was favored to win, but trounced his way to a 22 point victory shows at least that the environment is none too friendly for Dems right now.

Originally posted by normbenign
"wouldn't have the overhead or profit motive"

And therefore wouldn't have the discipline to keep costs contained.

*YAWN* Insurance companies now have no discipline to keep costs down other than shoving people off their rolls for the slightest reason - which is one of the primary problems with our health care system.

A public option would keep costs down because it would be an insurance company at cost - not at cost plus gross amounts of overhead and profits.

I'm beginning to wonder whether it's more accurate to say the U.S. is a client state of Israel rather than the other way around.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Turnout was really low even for a special election; less than 20% of registered voters, about half of the turnout in 2010 and less than a third of turnout in 2008. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20106163-503544.html
So it's hard to say that this is some harbinger of doom for Obama in 2012. The district is a lot more conservative than adjoining o ...[text shortened]... aised as a campaign issue among the socially conservative Jews of this particular district.

You forgot to mention that Obama wasn't on the ballot and therefore the election results had nothing to do with him or his policies.

According to John McLaughlin, the political strategist who helped pilot Turner to victory, the Republican candidate spent about $60,000 on media in the final week compared to over a million for the defeated Democrat Weprin. The Democrats flooded the district with workers and money but were not able to stem the avalanche.

Originally posted by normbenign
If making something voluntary would destroy it, then perhaps it isn't so good. Most people would support voluntarily a good plan.

No, they wouldn't.

Originally posted by quackquack
Medicare could be run such that you had the option to either pay into to the program and get the benefits or not pay in and not get the benefits. If many people did not choose to pay in, it would tell me that people believed the costs outweighed the benefits.

It is harder to opt out of benefits of the armed forced (or many other tax programs) but I d ...[text shortened]... t could be used for certain governmental option such as healthcare, Social Security and Medicare

It could be run that way, but that would make it the "public option" and not Medicare. Poor people will never be able to afford it so they will go uninsured. Kind of defeats the purpose of Medicare.

Originally posted by sh76
I do have to say that the attitude of some in the New York Jewish community that Obama has been so terrible to Israel is silly and baffling. All Obama basically did was re-state what has been the basic policy of most American and Israeli administrations for the last 40 years, albeit with a bit less tact.

The gay marriage issue was in fact another big issue i ...[text shortened]... a 22 point victory shows at least that the environment is none too friendly for Dems right now.

I think it was the Bowzer endorsement which sank the Democrat. Orthodox Jews probably don't like Bowzer.

Originally posted by TheBloop
You forgot to mention that Obama wasn't on the ballot and therefore the election results had nothing to do with him or his policies.

Well, some of the voters (and people who didn't vote) were interviewed about it, and expressed great disappointment in Obama. I think the constant cave-ins to Republicans have taken their toll.

Originally posted by normbenign
Medicare costs in the very first year were 10X their projected amount. The program is going broke.

Well, it's going broke for the same reason that premiums are climbing - the lack of regulation on health care costs.

Originally posted by PsychoPawn
As usual, I think there are more factors than meet the eye.

I think one main problem Obama has is that he has done NOTHING to get his base excited or even enthusiastic about voting. I wouldn't be surprised if simple voter turnout was an issue here.

BTW, when did Republicans vote to "end Medicare"?

The Ryan budget bill that republicans wanted that replaced medicare with a voucher program.

So did Ryans plan end it, or improve what we have?