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Originally posted by USArmyParatrooperAs dryhump said, nothing is being saved. It's being paid for by the govt instead of by employers. Tax rates would have to rise to the same extent as employers would have money. Money isn't actually saved, except to the extent that it's more efficient to have a single payer system.
To be clear I'm A-OK with heathcare being deemed a right to our citizens. I'm more concerned with the end result, that literally nobody is turned away for basic healthcare. Whether it's a right or an agreed upon service is immateral to me.
Aside from the compelling statistics already provided, think about how much money that would save employers saving would be seen in overall profits and/or employee salaries - which of course is taxed.
literally nobody is turned away for basic healthcare
Good luck defining "basic."
PS: That's also the goal of programs like Medicaid and Medicare and rules that emergency rooms can't turn people away for inability to pay.
Originally posted by FMFYeah, well, I have a pet peeve about re-distribution for the sake of re-distribution and it causes me to react gutturally sometimes. It also drives me nuts when people claim to be entitled to things they didn't earn. I know now that this is not what USAP was saying, but that's how I reacted as I did.
Ok. I understood what you were on about until you suddenly attached the bumper sticker thing. I still don't quite see why you did.
Point taken.
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Originally posted by EladarI'm all for free Internet.
Is it a general welfare to make sure everyone has good housing? How about everyone having access to transportation?
As soon as you declare it a right, you imply that it is free.
We should have free health care, free food, free housing and free internet!
Why not?
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Originally posted by EladarNo, because universal healthcare will pay for itself and end up costing us as individuals less than we pay for private insurance.
Universal Health care isn't too expensive?
Why should major cities be the only places to get free wifi?
I'm all for pulling subsidies out of our overproducing corn business though.
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Originally posted by KunsooYou should avoid that kool aid.
No, because universal healthcare will pay for itself and end up costing us as individuals less than we pay for private insurance.
I'm all for pulling subsidies out of our overproducing corn business though.
There is no magic bullet to bring universal health care to the masses without making huge cuts in medical wages. As long as the medical community charges the amount of money they charge, there is no way we can afford universal health care.
The problem isn't those who would be switched over from private insurance premiums to higher taxes. The problem is all those people who do not pay for insurance in the first place, but will now be given free health insurance. We will end up having to pay for them too.
As you pointed out, there is no such thing as free health care (even public insurance).
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Originally posted by EladarWell, I have no problem with price controls either. Health care workers and professionals do just fine in the social democracies.
You should avoid that kool aid.
There is no magic bullet to bring universal health care to the masses without making huge cuts in medical wages. As long as the medical community charges the amount of money they charge, there is no way we can afford universal health care.
The problem isn't those who would be switched over from private insurance premiums ...[text shortened]... .
As you pointed out, there is no such thing as free health care (even public insurance).
Yes, we will end up paying for the lower income. But we do anyway in our premiums as we are subsidizing emergency care treatment often the result of a lack of regular care. So while we are subsidizing the lower income, with price controls our premiums will be lowered from their current rate. The CBO sees this, and actually projects a huge drop in the deficit from the decline of, among other things, emergency room spending.
Well, I have no problem with price controls either.
My point was that health care in its present form is too expensive. Trying to create universal health care using today's pricing will not work because we can't afford it.
Price controls are the way to go if you want to go with universal health care. I'd just want to make sure that no one can get special care if they are willing to fork out a few extra bucks. Until you do so, you will having nothing more than today's problems hidden by smoke and mirrors.
Politicians are the biggest problem. We should see politicians and their families in line with the rest of us.