state rights and health care

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
So why do you argue for the use of the state as "reasonable" place where power should be centered, instead of e.g. counties?

Again, I am in favor of decentralizing power and this is one way to do so. I suppose if at some point it could be divided even more by empowering local communities. As I say, this is something for the American people to decide if they don't like the status quo.

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Providing insurance for all will increase the class gap...

Wait, what?

Those that can't pay for it are already on the bottom of the class system. However, those that can pay for it will take up the burden of those who cannot pay for it thus the middle class will take yet another tax hit. In fact, the Obama administration has pretty much conceeded as much that this will have to happen at some point. You might call it, trickly up poverty.

Originally posted by whodey
Again, I am in favor of decentralizing power and this is one way to do so. I suppose if at some point it could be divided even more by empowering local communities. As I say, this is something for the American people to decide if they don't like the status quo.

So, let's say local communities take care of their own health care. Do you think it would be more efficient than nationwide coordination? I doubt it. Also, it would be unfair towards poorer communities.

Should you not judge the level at which health care is coordinated on the efficiency and results rather than some vague ideas about the meaning of sovereignty?

Originally posted by whodey
Those that can't pay for it are already on the bottom of the class system. However, those that can pay for it will take up the burden of those who cannot pay for it thus the middle class will take yet another tax hit. In fact, the Obama administration has pretty much conceeded as much that this will have to happen at some point. You might call it, trickly up poverty.

Don't you think the middle class benefits if the lower class is more productive, richer, more healthy and less criminal?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Don't you think the middle class benefits if the lower class is more productive, richer, more healthy and less criminal?

I think there would be less in the lower class if life was not made so hard for the middle class. The focus should be job training, education, and job creation. In fact, 2/3 of the jobs in America each year that are generated come from small business. Unfortunatly, the larger corporations are the only ones politicians are concerned about because they greese the wheels.

If only I worked for GE or Goldman Sacks.....

Originally posted by whodey
I think there would be less in the lower class if life was not made so hard for the middle class. The focus should be job training, education, and job creation. In fact, 2/3 of the jobs in America each year that are generated come from small business. Unfortunatly, the larger corporations are the only ones politicians are concerned about because they greese the wheels.

If only I worked for GE or Goldman Sacks.....

Is life "hard" for the US middle class? Then you should really move to Europe...

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Is life "hard" for the US middle class? Then you should really move to Europe...

I believe we should fight for our rights no matter where we live. Yourself included.

I would just like to add, the fight for ones freedoms NEVER end. The day you decide to stop fighting is the day you start to lose them as someone will gladly take them from you.

Originally posted by whodey
So lets say, for the sake of arguement, that you are wrong and the proposed legislation ends up chasing all other health care packages away and we are left with no other choices? Is the federal government not empowered? They not only have access to your medical records, but they then are in a position to determine how and if you will get treated. Aside fro ...[text shortened]... further incrase the class gap between the elitists who serve in government and the average Joe.

Well, let's also say my aunt has balls. She would be my uncle, right? But DOES she??? Just suppose!

That makes about as much sense. Since there are NO provisions in the bill "chasing away" private insurers it's a nonsensical hypothetical. It's not going to chase away private insurers anymore than the US Postal Service chases away UPS, FedEx or countless other private couriers.

And even if they did, I don't exactly have great faith that money making enterprises care more about my health/life than their own bottom line. And for the 50 million or so uninsured, are they better off staying that way?

Originally posted by whodey
I believe we should fight for our rights no matter where we live. Yourself included.

I would just like to add, the fight for ones freedoms NEVER end. The day you decide to stop fighting is the day you start to lose them as someone will gladly take them from you.

Whatever you say. I've never "fought for freedom", but maybe that's because I already have it (and no, no one's trying to take it away).

Are there any students that actually have experience with defending their freedom? I mean first your parents pay your bills, then your school headmaster tells you if you can even graduate, what happens when you graduate and start seeing half your tax money getting taken away and half your lifestyle is wasted on long lines and government bureaucracy?

Originally posted by USArmyParatrooper
Well, let's also say my aunt has balls. She would be my uncle, right? But DOES she??? Just suppose!

That makes about as much sense. Since there are NO provisions in the bill "chasing away" private insurers it's a nonsensical hypothetical. It's not going to chase away private insurers anymore than the US Postal Service chases away UPS, FedEx or c bottom line. And for the 50 million or so uninsured, are they better off staying that way?

Well from what I hear, Obama has abandon the single payer option. Go figure? If so, now all we have to worry about is it causing us all to go broke again like Medicare/Medicaid.

Is it your position that we need not bother worrying about the cost of this plan if passed?

Originally posted by KazetNagorra
Whatever you say. I've never "fought for freedom", but maybe that's because I already have it (and no, no one's trying to take it away).

I suspect that there are those who feel the same in the US. However, I would disagree. Perhaps they are not paying attention or perhaps they are just asleep like I was. Either that, or they have a personal agenda in mind in supporting these guys. In fact, I remember when Bush was in office and some of the stuff he pulled like the Patriot act and such. It certainly made me nervous, and I would argue much of the statist policies he pulled out of his hat should have had these protests much earlier.