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Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    05 Jul '10 03:39
    Are US States, on average, about equivalent to small countries in the rest of the world? Can the US be modelled as an alliance of 50 countries without distorting the truth too much?
  2. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    05 Jul '10 03:57
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Are US States, on average, about equivalent to small countries in the rest of the world? Can the US be modelled as an alliance of 50 countries without distorting the truth too much?
    They tried that with the Articles of Confederation. It had some problems. Whether they were of a greater or lesser nature than the ones we currently face is another matter.
  3. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    05 Jul '10 04:15
    Originally posted by rwingett
    They tried that with the Articles of Confederation. It had some problems. Whether they were of a greater or lesser nature than the ones we currently face is another matter.
    What led me to think about this was looking at the flag. 50 stars. We're a superpower.

    Are we really as powerful as 50 Greece/Kazakhstan/Syria/Ghana/Nigeria/ etc sized countries? Our power is different because we've been working together a long time and plan to stay together forever, so we coordinate more effectively, but then again the states might share some resources...it's kind of an odd thought.
  4. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    05 Jul '10 04:35
    Our GDP is several HUNDRED times that of Syria!
  5. Donation rwingett
    Ming the Merciless
    05 Jul '10 12:04
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What led me to think about this was looking at the flag. 50 stars. We're a superpower.

    Are we really as powerful as 50 Greece/Kazakhstan/Syria/Ghana/Nigeria/ etc sized countries? Our power is different because we've been working together a long time and plan to stay together forever, so we coordinate more effectively, but then again the states might share some resources...it's kind of an odd thought.
    The European Union has 27 members (including Greece), although their flag has only 12 stars. They're all independent nations.
  6. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Jul '10 12:45 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    Are US States, on average, about equivalent to small countries in the rest of the world? Can the US be modelled as an alliance of 50 countries without distorting the truth too much?
    The difference is that the federal government has the power to bind the states in many areas against their will and that federal law is supreme when it conflicts with state law. States also have no power to unilaterally secede (as I was telling South Carolina, just the other day) and there are many governing powers that are vested exclusively in the federal government.

    While it's true that states maintain some autonomy (although probably less than was originally envisioned*), the United States-Texas relationship is much more analogous to say, Canada-Ontario, than to EU-France.






    * I say this fully aware that this little aside may very well earn me another Nazi comparison from No1. Nevertheless, it is likely the case.
  7. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Jul '10 12:54
    Originally posted by sh76
    The difference is that the federal government has the power to bind the states in many areas against their will and that federal law is supreme when it conflicts with state law. States also have no power to unilaterally secede (as I was telling South Carolina, just the other day) and there are many governing powers that are vested exclusively in the federal gov ...[text shortened]... de may very well earn me another Nazi comparison from No1. Nevertheless, it is likely the case.
    You probably haven't read it, but there was this thing called the 14th Amendment which sharply reduced the "autonomy" some States envisioned they had.
  8. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Jul '10 13:14
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    You probably haven't read it, but there was this thing called the 14th Amendment which sharply reduced the "autonomy" some States envisioned they had.
    You probably didn't read my post because if you had, you would have noticed the word "originally" in there.
  9. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Jul '10 13:26
    Originally posted by sh76
    You probably didn't read my post because if you had, you would have noticed the word "originally" in there.
    I noticed the "probably less" wording which is sloppy and shows a lack of understanding of the Constitutional text.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    05 Jul '10 13:43
    Originally posted by no1marauder
    I noticed the "probably less" wording which is sloppy and shows a lack of understanding of the Constitutional text.
    Ah; so you didn't see the word "originally" before making your irrelevant comment about the 14th Amendment.

    Just as I thought.

    And I'm the one who's "sloppy"...
  11. Standard member wolfgang59
    Infidel
    05 Jul '10 13:45
    Originally posted by AThousandYoung
    What led me to think about this was looking at the flag. 50 stars. We're a superpower.

    Are we really as powerful as 50 Greece/Kazakhstan/Syria/Ghana/Nigeria/ etc sized countries? Our power is different because we've been working together a long time and plan to stay together forever, so we coordinate more effectively, but then again the states might share some resources...it's kind of an odd thought.
    What are current thoughts on expanding the 50 states?

    The EU is constantly growing (much to the annoyance of most of the population)

    Could the US take in Puerta Rica? Mexico? Canadian States? Would it want to?
  12. 05 Jul '10 13:50 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by sh76
    Ah; so you didn't see the word "originally" before making your irrelevant comment about the 14th Amendment.

    Just as I thought.

    And I'm the one who's "sloppy"...
    I wonder what the Founding Fathers would have thought of the 14th amendment. Its intentions were "good", however, it only led to a further deterioation of the Founding Fathers concept of federalism.
  13. 05 Jul '10 13:59
    A friend an I have discussed this question:
    Is it possible for Texas to go out of the USA and declare themselves as totally independant?
    Or is it so that once you are a member state of USA you're stuck forever?
  14. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Jul '10 14:00
    Originally posted by sh76
    Ah; so you didn't see the word "originally" before making your irrelevant comment about the 14th Amendment.

    Just as I thought.

    And I'm the one who's "sloppy"...
    The standards for passing the bar must have terribly deteriorated since the early 1990's. Specious arguments like that would have made my law professors laugh.
  15. Subscriber no1marauder
    It's Nice to Be Nice
    05 Jul '10 14:03
    Originally posted by whodey
    I wonder what the Founding Fathers would have thought of the 14th amendment. Its intentions were "good", however, it only led to a further deterioation of the Founding Fathers concept of federalism.
    The experience of the 80 years since the forming of the Constitution would have convinced the vast majority that too much power was left to the States IMO. If Federalism was really soooooooooooooo important to them, they would have stuck with the Articles of Confederation and Perpetual Union.