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Originally posted by vivifyYeah, you know I'm getting more excited about it as I think of it. Imagine if we could establish a website that would show the current national debt. You could make an online contribution towards the national debt and immediately see the total debt reduce by your contribution. If the people got immediate feedback and saw their contribution make a difference it could be addictive.
You're absolutely right. A balanced budget would be the cornerstone of reducing the debt. This must be done first.
And like I said earlier, taxing the rich won't make any miracles. I don't believe there's any way to "quickly" reduce the debt, and if there was, increased taxes on the rich isn't it. All taxing the rich would be, is a start. And you're ...[text shortened]... . I wonder if there's some way to get this idea to spread, and get it off the ground.
Originally posted by vivifyUntil you get spending under control, this would be like shooting a BB gun at a freight train.
You're absolutely right. A balanced budget would be the cornerstone of reducing the debt. This must be done first.
And like I said earlier, taxing the rich won't make any miracles. I don't believe there's any way to "quickly" reduce the debt, and if there was, increased taxes on the rich isn't it. All taxing the rich would be, is a start. And you're ...[text shortened]... . I wonder if there's some way to get this idea to spread, and get it off the ground.
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Originally posted by TheSurgeonNeither the GOP nor the democrats talk about the actual debt. That tells me that neither party cares to deal with it so they will continue on as if nothing is wrong.
Thanks, I agree that the two parties need to stop this nonsense of trying to one up the other and look for wisdom in each other's critiques and settle on the best solutions. In my experience the most effective solutions in business are the ones that were the most highly scrutinized and concessions were made by everyone to settle upon a solution that best ...[text shortened]... to accommodate those points you will end up with a much simpler and more effective resolution.
In the interim, both parties will try to demonize each other as either the mean tax hiker or the insufferable protector of the wealthy. In this way they can both continue to gain support across the county. In the end, Americans will lose more and more of the wealth either due to inflating the dollar by printing more and more money and/or higher taxes like what we just witnessed with Obamacare.
In short, we're screwed.
Originally posted by whodeyIsn't the debt a phantom menace. Won't we grow out of it.
Neither the GOP nor the democrats talk about the actual debt. That tells me that neither party cares to deal with it so they will continue on as if nothing is wrong.
In the interim, both parties will try to demonize each other as either the mean tax hiker or the insufferable protector of the wealthy. In this way they can both continue to gain support acr ...[text shortened]... ney and/or higher taxes like what we just witnessed with Obamacare.
In short, we're screwed.
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Originally posted by whodeyWell, if we finally start balancing the annual budget and avoid budget deficits (and thus no longer generally add to the debt, and therefore with the debt remaining generally fixed in absolute numbers), won't the debt (in a growing economy over time) become smaller and smaller relative to the size of the economy, GDP, revenue, spending, etc? And we eventually reach a point where paying off the debt will be like giving a few coins out of the pocket to the bank?
Grow out of it? How do you grow out of $86 trillion in debt with continued trillion dollar deficits every year? Not even Barry Bonds could use enough steriods to do that.
Originally posted by moon1969I see we have a disconnect.
Well, if we finally start balancing the annual budget and avoid budget deficits (and thus no longer generally add to the debt, and therefore with the debt remaining generally fixed in absolute numbers), won't the debt (in a growing economy over time) become smaller and smaller relative to the size of the economy, GDP, revenue, spending, etc? And we eventua ...[text shortened]... point where paying off the debt will be like giving a few coins out of the pocket to the bank?
If government confiscated the entire adjusted gross income of American taxpayers, plus all of the corporate taxable income in the year before the recession, it would be around $6.7 trillion in revenue.
For this year ending in Decmeber the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion.
You are not proposing to slash Medicare and Mediad, are you? Supposing you are, lets say the budget is balanced, we are still not paying down the debt, how long before the GDP comes close to $86 trillion?
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Originally posted by moon1969Bro - it's like a checkbook, right? It's really not that different from a personal account.
Well, if we finally start balancing the annual budget and avoid budget deficits (and thus no longer generally add to the debt, and therefore with the debt remaining generally fixed in absolute numbers), won't the debt (in a growing economy over time) become smaller and smaller relative to the size of the economy, GDP, revenue, spending, etc? And we eventua ...[text shortened]... point where paying off the debt will be like giving a few coins out of the pocket to the bank?
This shouldn't need to be explained to you. As smart as you are, with your degrees and credentials, you should get this. You should also get that the need to get spending under control - to stop freaking spending - isn't a Republican or a Democrat need. It's an American need.
My liberal friends - you can think what you want. I assure you I'm not an ideologue. What I am is someone who sees things plainly, and if you cannot understand that an $84 thousand billion shortfall represents a grave threat to our Nation, freedom, and way of life, then I can't help you. I don't hate old people, I don't hate poor people, I don't hate gay people. I want to live my life as I see fit, with minimal interference from government. That's it. But here's the thing - an $84 thousand billion marker is going to wreck one hell of a lot of futures in this country.
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Originally posted by sasquatch672When Clinton was the deficit hawk (and even before Clinton), the Republicans regularly said we would grow out our debt.
Bro - it's like a checkbook, right? It's really not that different from a personal account.
This shouldn't need to be explained to you. As smart as you are, with your degrees and credentials, you should get this. You should also get that the need to get spending under control - to stop freaking spending - isn't a Republican or a Democrat need. It usand billion marker is going to wreck one hell of a lot of futures in this country.
If I am in college and making $15,000 year in part-time work, and borrow $8,000 to go to school, and during school and after graduation I pay interest on my $8000 debt but not principal, and then 20 years later I am making $250,000 per year, what about my $8,000 debt?
Originally posted by AThousandYoungTell me you're not serious.
There are over 400 billionaires many of whom have multiple billions. The money is out there to pay the debt despite sasquatch's protestations.
This is the problem I have with you people and the polls you all love to quote. Basically, the polls say, "Something should be done about this, and somebody besides me should be doing it". All your polls make the debt somebody else's problem. Now I know that liberals hate the idea of personal responsibility, because you're terrified that someone might not like you if you actually make a decision or take action. But that's precisely what's needed right now, and taking entitlements away is precisely what has to be done.
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Originally posted by sasquatch672"Entitlements" is a misnomer. People pay into Social Security and Medicare, and also unemployment insurance, all their working lives. That is why you cannot "take entitlements away". More than a breach of contract, it would be theft, which is the very act you continually accuse "liberals" of perpetrating.
Tell me you're not serious.
This is the problem I have with you people and the polls you all love to quote. Basically, the polls say, "Something should be done about this, and somebody besides me should be doing it". All your polls make the debt somebody else's problem. Now I know that liberals hate the idea of personal responsibility, because yo y what's needed right now, and taking entitlements away is precisely what has to be done.