The Butchers of Tel Aviv

@Earl-of-Trumps said
Cliff, when you are desperate, any helping hand is welcome.

This should not be a case of Right v. Left, it should be a case of Right v. Wrong.

The Israeli Zionist butchers are WRONG

Hamas wasn't a helping hand. Hamas took billions in aid and built tunnels, bought weapons, trained terrorists, and let the palestinians starve. Billions meant to build schools, roads, hospitals, and food.

@Suzianne said
So it could have been any machine gun?

So saying tanks was just hyperbole?

To the people fleeing in the car, I don't suppose it made very much difference where the bullets came from. One can imagine the conversation;
'Are those bullets killing us from a tank or a machine gun?'
'Probably a machine gun.'
'Allah be praised, for a moment there I thought we were in trouble.'

@Suzianne said
However, can you see that comparing them to Nazis is incredibly bad optics?

genocide by any other name is still genocide

@Cliff-Mashburn said
Hamas wasn't a helping hand. Hamas took billions in aid and built tunnels, bought weapons, trained terrorists, and let the palestinians starve. Billions meant to build schools, roads, hospitals, and food.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Hamas are angels. Of course Hamas should not have killed or imprisoned anyone. I have an abiding image in my head of a mother fanning her (Palestinian) child to keep it cool whilst it sucked its' own hand and slowly starved to death, because she had no food to give it. I think the point that the Earl is making is that it's time to stop the slaughter of the innocents, from whichever side of the great divide.

@Indonesia-Phil said
I don't think anyone here is saying that Hamas are angels. Of course Hamas should not have killed or imprisoned anyone. I have an abiding image in my head of a mother fanning her (Palestinian) child to keep it cool whilst it sucked its' own hand and slowly starved to death, because she had no food to give it. I think the point that the Earl is making is that it's time to stop the slaughter of the innocents, from whichever side of the great divide.

that's fine Phil, but Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and everyone else all say the same pointed thing:

THE OCCUPIERS ARE NOT INNOCENT

@Indonesia-Phil said
I don't think anyone here is saying that Hamas are angels. Of course Hamas should not have killed or imprisoned anyone. I have an abiding image in my head of a mother fanning her (Palestinian) child to keep it cool whilst it sucked its' own hand and slowly starved to death, because she had no food to give it. I think the point that the Earl is making is that it's time to stop the slaughter of the innocents, from whichever side of the great divide.

It is time Hamas surrenders, release the hostages and dismantle. The side that started the war does not get to make demands. They have to surrender, which they are refusing to do. Let the war continue.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
that's fine Phil, but Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and everyone else all say the same pointed thing:

THE OCCUPIERS ARE NOT INNOCENT

I know, there's a lot of deep and recent historical context, here, and all one can do is to hope that it all ends soon, but that, I think, is a vain hope.

@Rajk999 said
It is time Hamas surrenders, release the hostages and dismantle. The side that started the war does not get to make demands. They have to surrender, which they are refusing to do. Let the war continue.

I'm not talking about Hamas making demands. War is one thing, which is horrific enough in itself, but the systematic starvation of a civilian population should in my view broker international condemnation, which it is, actually, but beyond that nobody seems able or willing to do anything about it.
Your 'moral compass' and mine are clearly set differently, so we're not going to agree on this.

@Indonesia-Phil said
I'm not talking about Hamas making demands. War is one thing, which is horrific enough in itself, but the systematic starvation of a civilian population should in my view broker international condemnation, which it is, actually, but beyond that nobody seems able or willing to do anything about it.
Your 'moral compass' and mine are clearly set differently, so we're not going to agree on this.

Oh .. we do agree on quite a few things.
- war is horrific ... Lesson - Dont start the damn thing.
- Starvation of the civilian population should be condemned. This is Hamas's doing. Hamas is playing the media, and they have been known to kill, starve and abuse their own. But nobody condemns Hamas.

If Mexico attacks Laredo, Texas, they rape, kill a thousand Americans and take another thousand hostage. When the US responds and wipes out Monterrey, is it the responsibility of the US to feed the Monterrey population? I dont think so.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
that's fine Phil, but Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, ISIS, and everyone else all say the same pointed thing:

THE OCCUPIERS ARE NOT INNOCENT

Look at the map…WHO are the occupiers?
Gaza and West Bank are nothing more than landing places for terrorist to harass Israel.

@Mott-The-Hoople said
Look at the map…WHO are the occupiers?
Gaza and West Bank are nothing more than landing places for terrorist to harass Israel.

Mott, you need a quick clarification.

There are two rights of Judaism, Ashkenazi and Sephardi. The Sephardi are the Jews of Jesus' time and before that,
they have black skin, and are Semites like their Arab brethren, and they positively do have the right to reside in the Levant.

The Ashkenazi are Jews of Europe, where Jewry was birthed some time in the 15th century, in Southern Russia.
The Ashkenazi have white skin, are not Semites, are not related to the Sephardi, yet most people conflate the two, anyway.
The Ashkenazi did not come into the Levant in considerable numbers until the start of the 20th century, or 100 years ago,
and they brought the Zionist movement with them, which spelled the destruction of Palestine.

A little factoid for you. Benjamin Netanyahu is the first Israeli PM that was born in Israel.

If you look up the word "Interloper", you are certain to see "Euro Jews in the Levant"

@Earl-of-Trumps said
Mott, you need a quick clarification.

There are two rights of Judaism, Ashkenazi and Sephardi. The Sephardi are the Jews of Jesus' time and before that,
they have black skin, and are Semites like their Arab brethren, and they positively do have the right to reside in the Levant.

The Ashkenazi are Jews of Europe, where Jewry was birthed some time in the 15th cen ...[text shortened]... srael.[/b]

If you look up the word "Interloper", you are certain to see "Euro Jews in the Levant"

If you are saying that Ashkenazi Jews do not have their roots in Israel [ie their forefathers were NOT Jews from Israel] in the time of Christ, you are mistaken. The term Ashkenazi was used to describe Jews that settled in and around Germany in the middle ages. That does not mean they appeared out of thin air. They were descendants of the very same Jews like the Shepardi Jews who were scattered by the Roman Empire in the first century.

@Earl-of-Trumps said

The Ashkenazi are Jews of Europe, where Jewry was birthed some time in the 15th century, in Southern Russia.
The Ashkenazi have white skin, are not Semites, are not related to the Sephardi, yet most people conflate the two, anyway.

Perplexity : Do Ashkanezi Jews have roots in Israel

Ashkenazi Jews do have roots in ancient Israel. They are descendants of the Israelites and Hebrews from historical Israel and Judah. Genetic studies show that Ashkenazi Jews originate from a population in the Middle East that spread to Europe, particularly following the destruction of the First Temple around 2,500 years ago. They exhibit significant genetic links to the Levant region (which includes ancient Israel), although they also have mixed ancestry from Southern and Eastern Europe due to later migrations and population bottlenecks. Tradition and genetic evidence both support the view that Ashkenazi Jews have ancestral origins in ancient Israel before their dispersion to Europe.

More specifically:
- Ashkenazi Jews originated from ancient Israelites who were dispersed after Roman conquests and other historical events.
- DNA studies reveal a predominant near-Eastern (Levantine) genetic origin with a contribution from European populations, particularly in maternal lineages.
- Culturally and religiously, Ashkenazi Jews maintain strong ties to the heritage and nation of Israel.

Thus, Ashkenazi Jews are considered to have roots in Israel, with a history of migration and settlement that ultimately brought them to Europe during and after classical antiquity.

@Rajk999 said
Perplexity : Do Ashkanezi Jews have roots in Israel

Ashkenazi Jews do have roots in ancient Israel. They are descendants of the Israelites and Hebrews from historical Israel and Judah. Genetic studies show that Ashkenazi Jews originate from a population in the Middle East that spread to Europe, particularly following the destruction of the First Temple around 2,500 ...[text shortened]... igration and settlement that ultimately brought them to Europe during and after classical antiquity.

Two things to say to your slanted article:

1. The first known synagogue in Europe was built in the 1400's.

2. The Ashkenazi's white skin cannot be distinguished from other Europeans, so we must be talking
TRACE amounts of Ashkenazi DNA, like 2% or thereabouts. That makes them Israelis???? please.

In either event, those Euro Jews have no right throwing people off the land, people that have lived there for millenia.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
Two things to say to your slanted article:

1. The first known synagogue in Europe was built in the 1400's.

2. The Ashkenazi's white skin cannot be distinguished from other Europeans, so we must be talking
TRACE amounts of Ashkenazi DNA, like 2% or thereabouts. That makes them Israelis???? please.

In either event, those Euro Jews have no right throwing people off the land, people that have lived there for millenia.

You are grasping at straws with this nonsense about 'first known synagogue' and 'skin colour'. Are you serious?

Have a read... Perplexity : Do DNA studies show that Ashkenazi Jews have a strong connection to Ancient Jews.

DNA studies strongly show that Ashkenazi Jews have a significant genetic connection to ancient Jews of the Middle East. Multiple comprehensive genetic analyses reveal that Ashkenazi Jews descend from a small founding population with a mix of Middle Eastern and European ancestry. The paternal lineage largely traces back to ancient Israelites from the Levant region, affirming a strong connection to ancient Jewish populations.

Key points from recent studies include:

A large genomic study using DNA from medieval Ashkenazi individuals in Germany showed that the genetic bottleneck, or founder event, for Ashkenazi Jews predates the 14th century and that modern Ashkenazi Jews are genetically very homogenous, descending from a small group of ancestors.

Autosomal DNA, Y-chromosome, and mitochondrial DNA studies confirm a predominant Middle Eastern origin mixed with some European ancestry; paternal lines tend to be more Middle Eastern while maternal lines show some European influence.

Studies find that all Ashkenazi Jews today are related to each other at least as 30th cousins or closer, indicating descent from a small ancestral group estimated to be around 330-350 individuals from the Middle East and Europe.

Genetic markers and disease-associated mutations in Ashkenazi Jews are consistent with ancient Jewish heritage and a historic population bottleneck.

Overall, the DNA evidence strongly supports that Ashkenazi Jews retain a high genetic connection to the ancient Jews of Israel and the broader Middle East, reflecting their origin and continuity as a distinct Jewish population.