Originally posted by rwingettI'm a little confused by the reverence with which some Americans refer to their constitution (as opposed to American laws, which are often regarded as a bothersome inconvenience by comparison). The US constitution is not the definition of how to run a democracy, and many non-Americans would argue that it isn't even a particularly good example for other countries to follow. Like all laws, the US constitution was written by flawed human beings who couldn't predict what would happen in the distant future, and a few of its deficiencies have been patched up (with much political hand-wringing) by means of some rather ambiguous amendments, and now even the amendments are seen as sacred! I would have thought that if the inerrant word of God conflicted with something a few 18th century politicians wrote, Christians would amend the Constitution before the Bible.
For the American christians out there, assuming that the U.S. Constitution and the bible were to be in conflict in some area, to which do you hold the greater allegiance? The Constitution, or the bible? Do you think the Constitution holds precedence over the bible, or vice versa?
As for upholding the laws of the US, I get the impression that many Christians are fond of the phrase "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's", so on that basis breaking the law is a no-no unless the Bible clearly commands that you do so. But there's nothing wrong in general with wanting laws to be changed, even the Constitution.
Originally posted by rwingettWell, if Christians were true to their tenets, then the two should never
For the American christians out there, assuming that the U.S. Constitution and the bible were to be in conflict in some area, to which do you hold the greater allegiance? The Constitution, or the bible? Do you think the Constitution holds precedence over the bible, or vice versa?
be in competition. The Constitution pertains to things that happen
on this corporeal world while the Bible to those things spiritual.
As such, the 'free will' imparted to us by God should make irrelevant
those legal things which are sin. As such, the legalization (for example)
of pornography is not relevant to 'good Christians' who avoid it, for
they have not sinned. It is not a Christian's role to impose situations
where a person cannot sin, but to impart Truth by example a moral life.
If the former were true, there should be laws requiring people to be
locked up in their rooms with nothing but Billy Graham and their Bible.
By the latter, I don't mean by preaching but by living a life of selflessness
and love.
If far right-wing Christians actually did so rather than use the vindictive,
hateful and malicious political techniques they currently use, then the
things that were truly sin would disappear.
And, what do Christians care if YOU sin. It's going to be YOUR interview
with God on Judgement Day. Just as long as they 'stay pure' by not being
'perverted' by your attitudes, their salvation is assured. Just ask them.
Nemesio
Originally posted by AcolyteI am ASTOUNDED, frankly, with the selective reverence
I'm a little confused by the reverence with which some Americans refer to their constitution (as opposed to American laws, which are often regarded as a bothersome inconvenience by comparison).
with which Americans hold the Constitution. Like all documents
it has some limitations and imperfections which are constantly
being ironed out. The vast majority of Americans who hold
an almost religious allegience to the Constitution are often ignorant
of the context in which it was written, the attitudes of those who
composed it, the circumstances underwhich it was written, and
the intent of its 18th c. vernacular.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesioDid anyone hear the story of Kurt Goedel being examined for US citizenship?
I am ASTOUNDED, frankly, with the selective reverence
with which Americans hold the Constitution. Like all documents
it has some limitations and imperfections which are constantly
being ironed out. The vast majority of Americans who hold
an almost religious allegience to the Constitution are often ignorant
of the context in which it was written ...[text shortened]... e circumstances underwhich it was written, and
the intent of its 18th c. vernacular.
Nemesio
Originally posted by nemesioKurt Goedel in the story is of course the logician (and, although lesser known in this capacity, physicist) who gave us things like, funnily enough, Goedel's theorems. Clearly someone like that would go simply gaga over something like the Constitution and upon relocating to the US from Czechoslovakia in the late 40s, Goedel was taken by his friend Albert Einstein to court for his citizenship exam. On the way there, Goedel explained to Einstein how literal interpretation of the Constitution would make it legally possible for the US to become a dictatorship. Einstein didn't want him to fail, so he tried to change the subject and make him forget about it. They went in to see the judge (I think Einstein was Goedel's character witness or something), whereupon Goedel blurted out that the Constitution is inconsistent with the idea that the US must be governed democratically; apparently it took some smoothing-over on Einstein's part to get the judge to pass Goedel. I looked at some length a while ago for the specific part of the Constitution, but I didn't manage to find it.
Do tell.
Originally posted by royalchickenIn the version I heard, Goedel was forever undecided on the subject....
Kurt Goedel in the story is of course the logician (and, although lesser known in this capacity, physicist) who gave us things like, funnily enough, Goedel's theorems. Clearly someone like that would go simply gaga over something like the Constitution and upon relocating to the US from Czechoslovakia in the late 40s, Goedel was taken by his friend Alb ...[text shortened]... e length a while ago for the specific part of the Constitution, but I didn't manage to find it.
Originally posted by rwingettOF COURSE THE BIBLE, the constitution is nothing the constitution applies to people for a life time, the bible applies to people for an eternity
For the American christians out there, assuming that the U.S. Constitution and the bible were to be in conflict in some area, to which do you hold the greater allegiance? The Constitution, or the bible? Do you think the Constitution holds precedence over the bible, or vice versa?
Originally posted by rwingettAt least we know who wrote the US Constitution.
For the American christians out there, assuming that the U.S. Constitution and the bible were to be in conflict in some area, to which do you hold the greater allegiance? The Constitution, or the bible? Do you think the Constitution holds precedence over the bible, or vice versa?
Originally posted by rwingettThis is simply a tension tht Christians have to live with. Christians are compelled to live in the world to make it a better place, yet also acknowledging that their kingdom is of a spiritual nature. I had the experience last week of helping a small little community build a mosque. This didn't violate my Christian beliefs one bit as I feel it is important to help people in need. Never any intent on my part to convert and they were very welcoming of my help.
For the American christians out there, assuming that the U.S. Constitution and the bible were to be in conflict in some area, to which do you hold the greater allegiance? The Constitution, or the bible? Do you think the Constitution holds precedence over the bible, or vice versa?