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Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    23 Nov '17 04:47
    Sexual harrassment and assault seems to dominate the news at the moment, and with good reason, most people are apalled at the abuse of trust and power in these situations.

    But are all offenders the same? And if you did reprehensible things in your youth and settled down and flew right, should your maturity count for something? For example Roy Moore did terrible things 30 years ago, and by all accounts has been a good citizen since, but Al Franken has two accounts of inappropriate behaviour in the past 10 years, in a much more enlightened and educated era. Should Franken suffer more than Moore because of the timing of their offences, or does the nature of Moore's offences place him in a more damnable category?
  2. Standard member vivify
    rain
    23 Nov '17 06:16 / 1 edit
    We're in a world where sexual harassment is so rampant, and has been committed with impunity for so long, that we're at a point of zero tolerance. Currently, America is going through a purge of predatory public figures. This process must continue until we can get to a point where sexual harassment or assault is no longer a norm. The only way to do so is to quickly and firmly expunge anyone who has exhibited this behavior. This also sends a message to future would-be sex offenders.

    Sexual harassment has been dealt with too "nicely". For example, currently in Congress, victims must undergo a mandatory 30 days of counseling. There's also a ridiculous 30 day "cooling off period" victims must go through before filing a lawsuit or getting a lawyer:

    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/11/20/16679104/congress-sexual-harssment-process-explained

    Simply put, treatment of sexual harassment hasn't been tough or quick enough. In order to discourage sexual harassment from continuing, and to empower women to speak up when they've been victimized, softer approaches like letting offenders keep their government position must be done away with.

    Also, sex offenders are a different class of criminals, notorious for recidivism. That's why registries for such people exist: too many have shown inability to control their sexual impulses. Notice how with most of the men that have been exposed for predatory behavior, that thee are high numbers of accusers. Cosby had about 45 accusations of rape, Weinstein has 50 accusations of sexual harassment, plus 3 rape cases; Moore seemingly has a new accuser come out every day.

    Most crimes don't have the same degree of serial offenders like sex offenses. do.Therefore, we can't be as forgiving when it comes to sex offense and let politicians keep their job.
  3. Subscriber mchill
    cryptogram
    23 Nov '17 11:44 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Sexual harrassment and assault seems to dominate the news at the moment, and with good reason, most people are apalled at the abuse of trust and power in these situations.

    But are all offenders the same? And if you did reprehensible things in your youth and settled down and flew right, should your maturity count for something? For example Roy Moore did t ...[text shortened]... of their offences, or does the nature of Moore's offences place him in a more damnable category?
    Roy Moore did terrible things 30 years ago, and by all accounts has been a good citizen since...


    Excuse me, Roy Moore was removed from the Alabama Supreme Court TWICE for ethics violations. That is NOT being a "good citizen" and now his supporters want to dress him up as a reformed guy, which is also why the effort by Alabama State Auditor Jim Zeigler to compare Moore to the biblical Joseph. You might want to read the stories below. Roy Moore is NOT the biblical Joseph. He's just another corrupt, power hungry evangelical conservative hiding behind his church.

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/commentary/ct-roy-moore-hypocrite-christian-20171114-story.html

    http://www.al.com/news/birmingham/index.ssf/2017/04/suspended_alabama_supreme_cour.html
  4. 23 Nov '17 12:56
    Voters and lawmakers only care about sexual scandals if it involves a Republican.

    All others, like Bill Clinton, win second terms with a chuckle and a nice pat on the back.

    Scum like Conyers and Franken will all win a second and third term. In fact, they will probably be in their Washington taxpayer funded brothel till they day they die.
  5. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    23 Nov '17 15:16
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Sexual harrassment and assault seems to dominate the news at the moment, and with good reason, most people are apalled at the abuse of trust and power in these situations.

    But are all offenders the same? And if you did reprehensible things in your youth and settled down and flew right, should your maturity count for something? For example Roy Moore did t ...[text shortened]... of their offences, or does the nature of Moore's offences place him in a more damnable category?
    Only a fool would posit that all offenders are the same. Grabbing a sleeping woman's breasts is bad, but only a simpleton would say that's equivalent to trying to rape a 14 year old.

    As most people here know, I'm a Republican. But it's obvious to me that what Moore is accused of is far worse than what Franken is accused of.

    On the other hand, it's pretty clear that the way the Dems came out with strong anti-Franken rhetoric in the first hours and are now seemingly backing down and kicking the can down the road until some distant point in the future when an ethics committee convenes and "investigates" does smack a little of hypocrisy (after all, Moore also hasn't been convicted of anything), but of course, hypocrisy among politicians is nothing new.
  6. 23 Nov '17 15:21
    Originally posted by @sh76
    Only a fool would posit that all offenders are the same. Grabbing a sleeping woman's breasts is bad, but only a simpleton would say that's equivalent to trying to rape a 14 year old.

    As most people here know, I'm a Republican. But it's obvious to me that what Moore is accused of is far worse than what Franken is accused of.

    On the other hand, it's pretty ...[text shortened]... o hasn't been convicted of anything), but of course, hypocrisy among politicians is nothing new.
    There are other accusations now against Franken.

    Just call him, "the Groper".
  7. Subscriber kmax87
    You've got Kevin
    24 Nov '17 16:06
    Originally posted by @sh76
    Only a fool would posit that all offenders are the same. Grabbing a sleeping woman's breasts is bad, but only a simpleton would say that's equivalent to trying to rape a 14 year old.

    As most people here know, I'm a Republican. But it's obvious to me that what Moore is accused of is far worse than what Franken is accused of.

    On the other hand, it's pretty ...[text shortened]... o hasn't been convicted of anything), but of course, hypocrisy among politicians is nothing new.
    Okay, so let's zoom in a little. Cancelling Cosby show reruns or kicking Harvey out of his own company, I get that, but Charlie Rose dropped for living the Heff lifestyle, really?
  8. Standard member sonhouse
    Fast and Curious
    24 Nov '17 18:20
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Sexual harrassment and assault seems to dominate the news at the moment, and with good reason, most people are apalled at the abuse of trust and power in these situations.

    But are all offenders the same? And if you did reprehensible things in your youth and settled down and flew right, should your maturity count for something? For example Roy Moore did t ...[text shortened]... of their offences, or does the nature of Moore's offences place him in a more damnable category?
    In other words you are not a democrat.
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    Poor Filipov :,(
    24 Nov '17 18:37
    http://verifiedpolitics.com/newly-released-photos-videos-just-cast-doubt-claims-al-frankens-accusers-2/
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Nov '17 01:13 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by @kmax87
    Okay, so let's zoom in a little. Cancelling Cosby show reruns or kicking Harvey out of his own company, I get that, but Charlie Rose dropped for living the Heff lifestyle, really?
    It's the atmosphere.

    These allegations probably wouldn't have brought Rose down 5 years ago or 5 years from now.
  11. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    26 Nov '17 01:15
    Originally posted by @athousandyoung
    http://verifiedpolitics.com/newly-released-photos-videos-just-cast-doubt-claims-al-frankens-accusers-2/
    You know perfectly well that if anyone did that to Moore's accusers, they'd be lambasted for blaming the victim.