Originally posted by WajomaTo repeat for the nth time:
What is 'there' when they retire is their business, not yours and not the gummints, SS is just another tax. Believe it or not no1 people can prepare for their own retirement without your help.
If you think you've got some good ideas become an independent advisor, if your ideas are good you'll soon have a huge client base and they'd all be there (block your ears and cover your eyes no1) voluntarily.
Your system was tried. Elderly poverty was at unacceptably high rates. Society decided to do something about it. If you don't like society's judgment, leave.
Originally posted by no1marauderSociety didn't decide anything, there is no such thing as a collective mind no1. Some people think that some other people are incapable of running their own lives, so they adopt the roll of life managers by force, and then proceed to force their values on their fellow man.
To repeat for the nth time:
Your system was tried. Elderly poverty was at unacceptably high rates. Society decided to do something about it. If you don't like society's judgment, leave.
Better to call a spade a spade then try and obfuscate your agenda, you can do it, you don't need to hide in the mob no1, for some reason you feel you have more qualifications for deciding how others should live, sad that you should feel that way, because it is simply not true.
Originally posted by Wajoma😴😴
Society didn't decide anything, there is no such thing as a collective mind no1. Some people think that some other people are incapable of running their own lives, so they adopt the roll of life managers by force, and then proceed to force their values on their fellow man.
Better to call a spade a spade then try and obfuscate your agenda, you can do it, y ...[text shortened]... ding how others should live, sad that you should feel that way, because it is simply not true.
Originally posted by WajomaVery few of the elderly are clamoring for the "freedom" to live in poverty and squalor.
Society didn't decide anything, there is no such thing as a collective mind no1. Some people think that some other people are incapable of running their own lives, so they adopt the roll of life managers by force, and then proceed to force their values on their fellow man.
Better to call a spade a spade then try and obfuscate your agenda, you can do it, y ...[text shortened]... ding how others should live, sad that you should feel that way, because it is simply not true.
Originally posted by no1marauderYou need to know the difference between marketable and non-marketable treasury bonds.
(Sigh) It's been pointed out several times on this board that the SS Trust Fund does earn interest. To wit:
By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United Sta ...[text shortened]... t years when interest rates were higher.
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/fundFAQ.html#n3
http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/01-14-2005/0002828408&EDATE=
Originally posted by Metal BrainI already know the difference.
You need to know the difference between marketable and non-marketable treasury bonds.
http://www2.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/01-14-2005/0002828408&EDATE=
But the fact that a bond is non-marketable has nothing to do with its interest rate. The bonds that SS have earn interest at a statutory required level.
Originally posted by no1marauderI'm not talking about the interest rate. The money is not available on the open market.
I already know the difference.
But the fact that a bond is non-marketable has nothing to do with its interest rate. The bonds that SS have earn interest at a statutory required level.
Originally posted by Metal BrainIf and when the time comes that SS needs to use those intragovernmental securities, the US government will honor the obligation. Now how that is done depends upon the state of the general budget. If there is a sufficient surplus in the general fund (unlikely, but who knows), then the payment will come from that surplus. If there is not a sufficient surplus, then the Treasury will borrow from the public to make the payment to SS.
I'm not talking about the interest rate. The money is not available on the open market.
Originally posted by telerionLOL!
If and when the time comes that SS needs to use those intragovernmental securities, the US government will honor the obligation. Now how that is done depends upon the state of the general budget. If there is a sufficient surplus in the general fund (unlikely, but who knows), then the payment will come from that surplus. If there is not a sufficient surplus, then the Treasury will borrow from the public to make the payment to SS.
If the money was there they wouldn't have to borrow it!
Originally posted by no1marauderThe problem isn't that the money is in bonds. The problem is the underwriting or lack of it in the entire system.
I already know the difference.
But the fact that a bond is non-marketable has nothing to do with its interest rate. The bonds that SS have earn interest at a statutory required level.
At the time of SS enactment, life expectancy was less than the retirement age. Not so any more.
In the meantime, without any serious underwriting, the program has been expanded to cover a lot of other benefits, and COLA has always been calculated generously, and without regard to underwriting.
The problem with Social Security is that there are unfunded liabilities that will consume the entire GDP in the next century if benefits remain the same, and life expectancy doesn't increase.
The only problem with SS money being in bonds is that the government may not ever be in a position to repay those loans, never mind the unfunded mandates of SS.
Originally posted by Metal BrainI can try to be childishly explicit. If the money were in Al Gore's locked box, or under his pillow or buried in the walls of the Capitol, it would not be growing. The government borrowed SS money at interest, and has used it as well as money it has borrowed from other sources. What is in the SS Trust fund is bonds, IOUs.
I believe you stated that wrong. Do you care to correct yourself?
Even if the IOUs were converted to cash immediately by paying off the bonds, the fund is underfunded. It can't meet its long term obligations.