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Debates Forum

  1. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '09 13:44
    Rather than call them unAmerican or telling them to shut up and get out of the way, the Dem leadership might want to look at the example of Claire McCaskill and Arlen Specter, Criticize some of the tactics, but show some respect for the people behind the tactics.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_protests
  2. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    12 Aug '09 14:05
    Spot on. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing and nothing wrong with voicing one's opinion. But when meetings to discuss the proposals are hijacked by people who are more interested in screaming abuse and drowning out speakers, the protestors do themselves and their arguments a disservice.

    Now, if only we could have another memo leaked from some of the people organising this deliberate disruption saying 'actually, guys, let's behave like civilised people', all the people who want to attend these meetings for any reason other than to behave atrociously might begin to get something worthwhile from them.
  3. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    12 Aug '09 15:02
    Watching all of this "debate" makes those of us in the rest of the world do belly laughs.

    Since when does, "I'm afraid of Obama" pass for reasoned debate??


    Witness the final decline of the American Empire.
  4. 12 Aug '09 15:07 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by uzless
    Watching all of this "debate" makes those of us in the rest of the world do belly laughs.

    Since when does, "I'm afraid of Obama" pass for reasoned debate??


    Witness the final decline of the American Empire.
    Is it being afraid of Obama because he is "mean" or is it being afraid of Obama because he is clueless? The man has made claim after claim that has turned out to be false such as the unemployement rate not rising above 8% or not raising taxes on the middle class etc. In fact, an independent Congressional committee said recently that his claims about the new health care plan not raising deficits simply do not add up!! I think perhaps he needs to stop making such claims altogether and shut his pie hole.

    Then again, he is doing pretty well I guess for a community organizer I suppose.
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    12 Aug '09 15:13
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is it being afraid of Obama because he is "mean" or is it being afraid of Obama because he is clueless? The man has made claim after claim that has turned out to be false such as the unemployement rate not rising above 8% or not raising taxes on the middle class etc. In fact, an independent Congressional committee said recently that his claims about the new ...[text shortened]... ie hole.

    Then again, he is doing pretty well I guess for a community organizer I suppose.
    Witness the final decline of the American Empire. Specimen code: RHP0436whodey67C
  6. 12 Aug '09 15:54
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is it being afraid of Obama because he is "mean" or is it being afraid of Obama because he is clueless? The man has made claim after claim that has turned out to be false such as the unemployement rate not rising above 8% or not raising taxes on the middle class etc. In fact, an independent Congressional committee said recently that his claims about the new ...[text shortened]... ie hole.

    Then again, he is doing pretty well I guess for a community organizer I suppose.
    Was there ever in the history of mankind any politician who did not make exaggerated claims?
  7. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    12 Aug '09 16:00 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by uzless
    Watching all of this "debate" makes those of us in the rest of the world do belly laughs.

    Since when does, "I'm afraid of Obama" pass for reasoned debate??


    Witness the final decline of the American Empire.
    "American Empire" is a meaningless derision invented by those obsessed with historical analogies. There is no American Empire. Western Europe is not an American vassal and the United States has no territories other than a few minor ones that can have their independence whenever they like.

    The United States is just that, the United States. The pax Americana is not about Empire. It's about peace and freedom.*

    You can keep the empire. Maybe Canada and Western Europe would like to start funding global humanitarian missions and the UN and taking charge of keeping dictators and despots in line. All I can cay is have fun and good luck.

    PS: Where in this thread did anyone say anything about being afraid of Obama before your post?



    * I know I'm gonna get hammered for saying that. But so be it. In spite of some hiccups now and then, it's what I believe.
  8. Standard member uzless
    The So Fist
    12 Aug '09 16:01
    Originally posted by whodey
    Is it being afraid of Obama because he is "mean" or is it being afraid of Obama because he is clueless? The man has made claim after claim that has turned out to be false such as the unemployement rate not rising above 8% or not raising taxes on the middle class etc. In fact, an independent Congressional committee said recently that his claims about the new ...[text shortened]... ie hole.

    Then again, he is doing pretty well I guess for a community organizer I suppose.
    whoa easy there obfuscator. You've taken some quotes out of context there but, hey, why bother with accuracy.


    The fact is simple. The US MUST do health reform. You have no choice. You cannot afford your future spending commitments. Your population is getting old. You are a nation of soon to be retirees. Medicare/medicaid/social security will take up 100% of your budget in the coming years.

    Wake up.


    iousathemovie.com
  9. Subscriber AThousandYoung
    It's only business
    15 Aug '09 01:58 / 3 edits
    Originally posted by sh76
    "American Empire" is a meaningless derision invented by those obsessed with historical analogies. There is no American Empire. Western Europe is not an American vassal and the United States has no territories other than a few minor ones that can have their independence whenever they like.

    The United States is just that, the United States. The pax Americana i for saying that. But so be it. In spite of some hiccups now and then, it's what I believe.
    It's not hard to see that the vast majority of this country was never part of the Thirteen Colonies, and the Civil War showed us that our States can NOT have their independence whenever they like. However, we're still a Republic; our Caesar hasn't come yet, and hopefully never will. Therefore we have no Emporer.
  10. 15 Aug '09 12:54
    Originally posted by sh76
    Rather than call them unAmerican or telling them to shut up and get out of the way, the Dem leadership might want to look at the example of Claire McCaskill and Arlen Specter, Criticize some of the tactics, but show some respect for the people behind the tactics.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_protests
    agreed.

    However, you have to admit that some of those protesters are morons. All the stuff about fearing Obama, the death panels, the angry guy calling people liars, and the woman who said she didn't want the US to become Russia (), those things were just absurd and incredibly simplistic.
  11. 15 Aug '09 12:56 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    agreed.

    However, you have to admit that some of those protesters are morons. All the stuff about fearing Obama, the death panels, the angry guy calling people liars, and the woman who said she didn't want the US to become Russia (), those things were just absurd and incredibly simplistic.
    So you have a real grasp on the new legislation to make such assertions do ya? You read the whole bill did ya?
  12. 15 Aug '09 13:10
    Originally posted by whodey
    So you have a real grasp on the new legislation to make such assertions do ya? You read the whole bill did ya?
    I don't remember anything about death panels, or the sistematic killing of grannies.
  13. 15 Aug '09 13:34
    Originally posted by sh76
    Rather than call them unAmerican or telling them to shut up and get out of the way, the Dem leadership might want to look at the example of Claire McCaskill and Arlen Specter, Criticize some of the tactics, but show some respect for the people behind the tactics.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090812/ap_on_go_co/us_health_care_protests
    Um... they deserve about the same amount of respect as Code Pink. They use the same loudmouthed, disruptive, nonsensical rhetoric.
  14. 15 Aug '09 14:13
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    I don't remember anything about death panels, or the sistematic killing of grannies.
    No, but it does talk about "counsilors" and "rationing" and governmental bodies who will decide what is insurable and what is not does it not?
  15. 15 Aug '09 14:50
    Originally posted by whodey
    No, but it does talk about "counsilors" and "rationing" and governmental bodies who will decide what is insurable and what is not does it not?
    No, it does NOT talk about rationing AT ALL. That. is. a. lie. for. dumb. sheep. to. swallow.

    The counseling is *total* end of life counseling and it's voluntary. It is something all hospitals offer to terminal patients, and there is a provision in the bill to pay for it.