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  1. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    27 Aug '09 03:17
    I just heard a BBC news report about a Dutch mother and father want to allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own. The voyage would take 2 years. The Netherlands government has stepped in to prevent it.

    Thoughts?
  2. 27 Aug '09 03:42
    Originally posted by FMF
    I just heard a BBC news report about a Dutch mother and father want to allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own. The voyage would take 2 years. The Netherlands government has stepped in to prevent it.

    Thoughts?
    Give em all circumcisions and then caine hell out of em. The family too.
  3. 27 Aug '09 04:54 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by joe beyser
    Give em all circumcisions and then caine hell out of em. The family too.
    LOL, ahahahaha!
  4. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    27 Aug '09 10:11
    Dutch bid to thwart young sailor

    Social workers in the Netherlands have taken legal action to try to stop a 13-year-old girl from sailing around the world on her own.

    They want Laura Dekker to be made a ward of court, so that her parents, who support her plans, temporarily lose the right to make decisions about her.

    Laura's father, Dick Dekker, has had a request for her to miss two years of school turned down.

    Laura had a yacht by the age of six and began sailing solo when she was 10.

    "Since I was 10 years old, I've known that I would like to sail around the world," she told Dutch television.

    "I want simply to learn about the world and to live freely."

    'More vulnerable'?

    The current record is held by American Zac Sunderland, who completed the 45,000km (28,000-mile) voyage at the age of 17, after 13 months at sea.

    Miss Dekker, who was reportedly born on a yacht off the coast of New Zealand during a seven-year world trip, plans to break that record.

    "My parents always knew it was a dream of mine to do this," she is reported to have told a children's TV programme.

    "And I want to do it while I'm still young, so I can break the record."

    The trip, on an 8.3m-long yacht called Guppy, would be paid for by sponsorship, AFP reports.

    Local media report that the girl spent seven weeks sailing alone at the age of 11.

    But Junior Education Minister Marja van Bijsterveldt-Vliegenthart recently told parliament: "A solo voyage around the world would not be in the best interests of the child."

    Experienced sailors have also highlighted the risks Miss Dekker might face if she attempts to sail single-handedly around the globe.

    "When she's got a broken mast on heavy seas, can a girl make herself safe again? I can't see it happening," Bernt Folmer, director of the Enkhuizen School of Seamanship, told Radio Netherlands Worldwide.

    "You're much more vulnerable on your own than you are with other people," he added.

    The court is due to make a ruling this week.


    Story from BBC NEWS:
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/8219443.stm
  5. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    27 Aug '09 11:09
    From the 'circumcision thread'...

    Originally posted by sh76
    It's a matter of personal choice and personal freedom. Parents make decisions for their children routinely, and this is one of them. How about you coexist with my freedom from you and stay the heck out of my decision??
    sh76, I'd be curious about your thoughts on this Dutch 13 year old sailor. Would you side with the government of the Netherlands or with the teenager's family?
  6. 27 Aug '09 11:59
    Originally posted by FMF
    I just heard a BBC news report about a Dutch mother and father want to allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own. The voyage would take 2 years. The Netherlands government has stepped in to prevent it.

    Thoughts?
    I would leave it up to the court to decide. I think that in any such case all the facts need to be taken into consideration and all the risks weighed against the principle of freedom of choice
    I think there has to be a point at which a government should be able to step in and say 'that is too risky and not in the best interests of the child', whether this is that point, I do not know without all the facts, hopefully the court does know.
  7. Subscriber FMF
    a.k.a. John W Booth
    27 Aug '09 12:01
    Originally posted by twhitehead
    I would leave it up to the court to decide. I think that in any such case all the facts need to be taken into consideration and all the risks weighed against the principle of freedom of choice
    I think there has to be a point at which a government should be able to step in and say 'that is too risky and not in the best interests of the child', whether this is that point, I do not know without all the facts, hopefully the court does know.
    That's interesting. Give me a couple of examples of facts you don't have that you feel you need.
  8. 27 Aug '09 12:14
    Oh hell just send her on her way and wish her the best of luck. When she doesn't come back in two years have a good cry.
  9. 27 Aug '09 12:49
    Originally posted by FMF
    That's interesting. Give me a couple of examples of facts you don't have that you feel you need.
    A lot would depend on how much mature she is and how much sailing expertise she's had. I'd also want to have someone monitoring the voyage (via plane, satellite, or whatever) so that she could be rescued in the event of an emergency.

    There's a major difference between having a trained 13-yr old figure skater to go out and do eight triple jumps -- and having a random 13-yr old with little skating experience attempt the same jumps.
  10. Standard member sh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    27 Aug '09 13:33
    Originally posted by FMF
    sh76, I'd be curious about your thoughts on this Dutch 13 year old sailor. Would you side with the government of the Netherlands or with the teenager's family?
    Honestly, mixed feelings.

    My first gut reaction was that it's none of the government's business.

    But, after some thought, I'd have to know if this is really a dangerous enterprise. I don't know how risky sailing around the World is, though I imagine it's fairly risky. Will there be media boats with rescue equipment and First aid supplies following her around? I guess not.

    If this is something that presents a substantial risk to her life, then I don't have a problem with the government stepping in.
  11. 27 Aug '09 17:12
    Originally posted by FMF
    I just heard a BBC news report about a Dutch mother and father want to allow their 13 year old daughter to sail around the world on her own. The voyage would take 2 years. The Netherlands government has stepped in to prevent it.

    Thoughts?
    the government shouldn't intervene with the family's plans, if they want to do something stupid its their problem.
  12. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    27 Aug '09 19:09
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    the government shouldn't intervene with the family's plans, if they want to do something stupid its their problem.
    But if she gets in to trouble, it will become someone else's problem - rescuing a young girl whose boat has capsized in rough seas doesn't come cheap or easy and if her trip is like other round the world voyages, she'll be sending significant amounts of time with no support near by.

    I doubt, if she did get in to trouble, that her family would say 'well, we knew the risks and we accepted responsibility for those risks' and suggest she not be rescued.

    It might seem trivial or far-fetched, but it's indicative of a common problem when people assert their so-called rights, but also have expectations that others will provide a safety net if things don't go as planned.

    I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to sail around the world, or that they shouldn't be rescued when they try to and get in to trouble - but when a responsible authority upon whom that person may depend questions their ability to do so without significant risk of misadventure in a reasonable manner, maybe the parents should heed the advice.
  13. Standard member spruce112358
    Democracy Advocate
    27 Aug '09 19:57
    Originally posted by DrKF
    But if she gets in to trouble, it will become someone else's problem - rescuing a young girl whose boat has capsized in rough seas doesn't come cheap or easy and if her trip is like other round the world voyages, she'll be sending significant amounts of time with no support near by.

    I doubt, if she did get in to trouble, that her family would say 'well, we k ...[text shortened]... risk of misadventure in a reasonable manner, maybe the parents should heed the advice.
    So they take out an insurance policy -- where is the problem?

    I want to know on what principle the court has decided to intervene. On the grounds that 13 year olds should not be allowed to do something that sounds dangerous no matter what the parents think?
  14. Standard member Bosse de Nage
    Zellulärer Automat
    27 Aug '09 20:43 / 1 edit
    The world record for youngest round the world in a yacht was broken again today, I think, by another teenager. Mike Perham, 156 days at sea. Heard it on the radio earlier. There should be a round-the-world solo yacht race now.

    There it is:
    http://www.france24.com/en/20090827-sports-yachting-round-world-sailing-record-mike-perham-uk
  15. Standard member DrKF
    incipit parodia
    28 Aug '09 14:24
    She has been made a ward of court:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8226196.stm