Originally posted by scherzo Economic democracy to some would mean capitalism. It's where the word "neoliberalism" originated.
I think that capitalism can be reformed. A worker owned business still operates within a market economy. If they were the norm, rather than the exception, then you would have what some people refer to as 'market socialism.' Whether this would be an end in itself, or a transitional phase to pure socialism remains to be seen. My hunch is that it should be treated as an end in itself.
Originally posted by rwingett I think that capitalism can be reformed. A worker owned business still operates within a market economy. If they were the norm, rather than the exception, then you would have what some people refer to as 'market socialism.' Whether this would be an end in itself, or a transitional phase to pure socialism remains to be seen. My hunch is that it should be treated as an end in itself.
Actually one of the biggest (revenue: 11.5 billion euros) banks here in the Netherlands is a cooperative bank - with members rather than shareholders. There's little difference with an ordinary bank however, although they came through the credit crisis largely unscathed due to aiming more for long-term investments rather than short-term profits.
Originally posted by rwingett I think that capitalism can be reformed. A worker owned business still operates within a market economy. If they were the norm, rather than the exception, then you would have what some people refer to as 'market socialism.' Whether this would be an end in itself, or a transitional phase to pure socialism remains to be seen. My hunch is that it should be treated as an end in itself.
Originally posted by KazetNagorra Yeah, that's definitely true in your view of reality. But in the aforementioned reality investors will ignore brilliant plans if they are submitted by people with no experience, no relations and/or no starting capital. Of course, in situations where this is not the case and initial investment and required expertise is low, the situation you sketched is already in place and new businesses are started all the time.
You wasted a lot of words saying not much at all.
So the workers want to take a short cut, they want to run the company even though they have no experience, as an investor I'd be doubtful to, but this is what wingett is advocating, there is a reason his dreams aren't reality...
Originally posted by Wajoma You wasted a lot of words saying not much at all.
So the workers want to take a short cut, they want to run the company even though they have no experience, as an investor I'd be doubtful to, but this is what wingett is advocating, there is a reason his dreams aren't reality...
Originally posted by Wajoma You wasted a lot of words saying not much at all.
So the workers want to take a short cut, they want to run the company even though they have no experience, as an investor I'd be doubtful to, but this is what wingett is advocating, there is a reason his dreams aren't reality...
...they don't work
I'm sure that most people in the 17th century thought the 'divine right of kings' would never go out of style either.
Originally posted by Wajoma You wasted a lot of words saying not much at all.
So the workers want to take a short cut, they want to run the company even though they have no experience, as an investor I'd be doubtful to, but this is what wingett is advocating, there is a reason his dreams aren't reality...
...they don't work
The workers wouldn't have to run the company directly. They could elect a board to run the company, as long as the board is responsible to the workers and can be replaced by them. This is what the Equal Exchange company (in Massachusetts) does. That is one example of economic democracy in action. It can work. It does work. But the example needs to be replicated many times over.
The Two Halves of Democracy
22 Feb '10 21:15
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