Debates
20 Jun 05
20 Jun 05
World War I seems to be the beginning of an incomprehensible evil. That this terrible war could "start" is understandable in human terms. But that it could be continued past november of 1914 when it was obvious to ALL parties and indeed the entire world that there was not going to be a "victor"... is evil in the extreme. What happened? Why?
I don't really claim to understand, but I think it has it's roots in the same reason that European intellectuals DID become so dedicated to casting "God" out into the cold that they failed to adopt a replacement mechanism for "mercy" that god can provide. They were so enamoured of the notion that "Catholics and Jews" were the root cause of all the problems of the world, that they failed to incorporate any "gentlness" into all the new utopian dreams and philosophies. Quite the opposite -- with Marxism we had open war declared on god.
Maybe Solzenitzen said it best when he said ... and I only paraphrase here... I ain't got time to find it in "The Gulag Archipeligo"...
"When the new century came and the first great war was unable to be bent to reason and discourse, the masters of europe went to sleep and cast out god. And then we lost the gentleness of soul that God had always represented."
I think that this is why -- even as an atheist, I long for that gentleness that the "philosophy of god" represents. I might not be able to worship god. But I miss him.
20 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by StarValleyWyWhy arbitrarily choose the misnomered "World War I" as the starting point? If the whole premise of your post is that "leaders" have "cast out god" after this point, I'd have to say: Good. After all, a few dozen centuries years of living under this particular iteration of the "bible" is exactly what brought us to the point that Nationalism and intolerance can cause a near-global war.
World War I seems to be the beginning of an incomprehensible evil. That this terrible war could "start" is understandable in human terms. But that it could be continued past november of 1914 when it was obvious to ALL parties and ind ...[text shortened]... " represents. I might not be able to worship god. But I miss him.
Although the bible and its' mythical hero Jesus preach love, acceptance and kindness to your fellow man (edit: NT, anyway...), that is not human nature. Frankly, it is essentially non-pragmatic Marxism. Spiritual Communism, if you will. And it doesn't fly.
Solzenicyn was just being a wistful simp.
20 Jun 05
Originally posted by David CThis thread isn't posted in the "religion" section for a reason. I am not interested in religion in any way. What I would like to understand is the results of "casting god" out of the halls of "intellectualism". It seems that the First "world" war is a demarcation line. Before this point, war was an act with a purpose. The first war and the second don't have a "purpose". Just evil ideologies wanting to press home a victory of various "Utopian" dreams. This is what I call evil. I don't see why it can't be discussed and debated without the "religious" absolutelisms that you seem to demand.
Why arbitrarily choose the misnomered "World War I" as the starting point? If the whole premise of your post is that "leaders" have "cast out god" after this point, I'd have to say: Good. After all, a few dozen centuries years of living under this particular iteration of the "bible" is exactly what brought us to the point that Nationalism and intole ...[text shortened]... ritual Communism, if you will. And it doesn't fly.
Solzenicyn was just being a wistful simp.
20 Jun 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWyThe First World War doesn't differ ffrom any other wars in it's 'purpose'. They were all caused by peoples lust for land, money, power, glory etc. The First World War did not differ. in this respect. What made it different though was it's lack of one sidedness. It was a stalemate for a very long time. I think that's what caused it to perpetuate for such a long gruesome period.
This thread isn't posted in the "religion" section for a reason. I am not interested in religion in any way. What I would like to understand is the results of "casting god" out of the halls of "intellectualism". It seems that the First "world" war is a demarcation line. Before this point, war was an act with a purpose. The first war and the sec ...[text shortened]... an't be discussed and debated without the "religious" absolutelisms that you seem to demand.
20 Jun 05
Originally posted by jimslyp69So. Is that why Europe hates the US? For "breaking" that wonderful stalemate? We should have just "minded our business" and let europe have its fun?
What made it different though was it's lack of one sidedness. It was a stalemate for a very long time. I think that's what caused it to perpetuate for such a long gruesome period.
That could explain a lot. Couldn't it? About why Europe hates the US so strongly?
You are just plain uneducated if you don't see the "philosophical under-pinnings" of twentieth century war as opposed to wars of empire of the nineteenth century.
20 Jun 05
5 edits
Originally posted by StarValleyWyA couple of points: -
So. Is that why Europe hates the US? For "breaking" that wonderful stalemate? We should have just "minded our business" and let europe have its fun?
That could explain a lot. Couldn't it? About why Europe hates the US so strong ...[text shortened]... entury war as opposed to wars of empire of the nineteenth century.
1. The same ' philosophical under pinnings' were behind the wars of Empire. A xenophobic hatred was used to alienate and destroy a section of society for material gain.
2. The present political situation betwen the States and Europe is completely irrelevant to this argument. I have no idea why you have mentioned that. Perhaps you should start another thread about it somewhere else.
3. There is no need to insult me just because I 'dare' to disagree with you. All I did was put forward my point of view. Yes, maybe I am not as educated as you are on such matters, but I am still entitled to an opinion.
4. I hope I don't have to edit this post again.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by jimslyp69jimslyp69, you might want to do yet another edit and check out point 4 before SVW reads your post.
A couple of points: -
1. The same ' philosophical under pinnings' were behind the wars of Empire. A xenophobic hatred was used to alienate and destroy a section of society for material gain.
2. The present political situation betwen the States and Europe is completely irrelevant to this argument. I have no idea why you have mentioned that. Perhaps ...[text shortened]... and not the first, when America intervened.
5. I hope I don't have to edit this post again.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWy"We should have just "minded our business" and let europe have its fun?"
So. Is that why Europe hates the US? For "breaking" that wonderful stalemate? We should have just "minded our business" and let europe have its fun?
That could explain a lot. Couldn't it? About why Europe hates the US so strongly?
You are just plain uneducated if you don't see the "philosophical under-pinnings" of twentieth century war as opposed to wars of empire of the nineteenth century.
Exactly, SVW. Perhaps your time spent with the now hungry iguana is beginning to have a positive effect.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWymost historians think the american civil war was the first true total war
World War I seems to be the beginning of an incomprehensible evil. That this terrible war could "start" is understandable in human terms. But that it could be continued past november of 1914 when it was obvious to ALL parties and indeed the entire world that there was not going to be a "victor"... is evil in the extreme. What happened? Why?
I don ...[text shortened]... s that the "philosophy of god" represents. I might not be able to worship god. But I miss him.
i do think that the 20th century morals and ethics were cast aside slowly but surely every generation seems to get more degenerate
makes me proud to be evil
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by StarValleyWyHi Mike. What do you consider would have happened if we had not
So. Is that why Europe hates the US? For "breaking" that wonderful stalemate? We should have just "minded our business" and let europe have its fun?
That could explain a lot. Couldn't it? About why Europe hates the US so strongly?
You are just plain uneducated if you don't see the "philosophical under-pinnings" of twentieth century war as opposed to wars of empire of the nineteenth century.
intervened in WWI, suppose all the bad guys would have won. Would
it be a differant world now? Would we (the US) have developed
differantly? If so, how? Are you implying we would have been the
victim of a global domino effect like they talked about in Nam before
we entered that conflict? I think the moral depravation of the winners
would have led to their defeat anyway through maybe rebellion or
retaliations. Wonder how that would have played out, also how many
American lives would have been spared and countries like Australia
who lost so many at Gallipolie, if I spelled that right. Would Australia
have been swallowed up by the fascists? Don't know, any ideas?
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by jimslyp691. The same ' philosophical under pinnings' were behind the wars of Empire. A xenophobic hatred was used to alienate and destroy a section of society for material gain.
A couple of points: -
1. The same ' philosophical under pinnings' were behind the wars of Empire. A xenophobic hatred was used to alienate and destroy a section of society for material gain.
2. The present political situation betwen the States and Europe is completely irrelevant to this argument. I have no idea why you have mentioned that. Perhaps ...[text shortened]... rs, but I am still entitled to an opinion.
4. I hope I don't have to edit this post again.
Yea. Mein Kompf was just an afterthought I guess. The Social Democrats were not really interested in philosophy of governance. It was all for empire. They would have been quite content to let Jews and Blacks just kick back and enjoy life for the entire reign of the Third Reich as long as they were in control of the lands, peoples and economies of the vanquished. Can you give me an example of nineteenth century wars of empire that deliberately committed genecide as a matter of "philosophy" of purpose?
2. The present political situation betwen the States and Europe is completely irrelevant to this argument. I have no idea why you have mentioned that. Perhaps you should start another thread about it somewhere else.
Irrelevent to who? Me? I assure you it isn't irrelevent. I try to always figure why my enemies got to be that way. It helps. It is germain because the same "eviction" of god from the sophistry of euro intelligencia seems to mandate that the war against god be carried to the US because we refuse to adopt "euro-centric" stupidity and intollerance.
3. There is no need to insult me just because I 'dare' to disagree with you. All I did was put forward my point of view. Yes, maybe I am not as educated as you are on such matters, but I am still entitled to an opinion.
Did I insult you? Oops. Didn't mean to. I just wanted to point out how silly you are. If that is an insult then shame on me. I'll repent. Later.
4. I hope I don't have to edit this post again.
No. It is as illogical as you can get it.
😞😲
21 Jun 05
1 edit
Originally posted by StarValleyWyMein kampf was written after the first world was concluded. So yes, you could describe it as an after thought. The third Reich too, came into being after the first world war had concluded.
[b]1. The same ' philosophical under pinnings' were behind the wars of Empire. A xenophobic hatred was used to alienate and destroy a section of society for material gain.
Yea. Mein Kompf was just an afterthought I guess. Th ...[text shortened]... st again.[/b]
No. It is as illogical as you can get it.
😞😲[/b]
And in this post, you may as well be talking about your grandmother, because she would have more relevance than the absolute garbish you are spewing.
Please fell free to call me what you want. You are obviously right all of the time and are perfectly correct to criticise just because they have a differing opinion.
G'night sweet cheeks.
21 Jun 05
Originally posted by jimslyp69Can you spell Twentieth Century? I am quite aware of what the subject of my thread is. It is about all the "Utopian" wars and the second is just a continuation of the evil that started when supposedly "intelligent" beings failed to cease war in 1914 for the sake of "idiology". And then the other "Utopian" wars. The crushing of eastern europe by Stalin. Or wasn't that a "docrinaire" war of ideas? Was it too just a land grab? Stalin would have been happy to just let the people worship as they pleased?
Mein kampf was written after the first world was concluded. So yes, you could describe it as an after thought. The third Reich too, came into being after the first world war had concluded.
And in this post, you may as well be talking about your grandmother, because she would have more relevance than the absolute garbish you are spewing.
Please fell fr ...[text shortened]... ctly correct to criticise just because they have a differing opinion.
G'night sweet cheeks.
And good old Mao. He sure was a nice guy when it came to the kind and gentle ways of academia.
I apologize for any confusion about the first world war. That I pointed out an obvious evil as a point of discussion to discuss the entire damned century probably confused you. Right? No use trying to go look up what century means when you know so much about nothing already that it bubbles forth without cause?
I fell free. Wheeeeee! Thanks for the offer. I am not right all the time. Sometimes I am correct. Sometimes I am flawless. Other times I just have a superior position. You can tell in the latter case because of the blue smoke circles that emminate from my posterior as you look up at me in my chimp tree.
Or maybe I just like to argue and get people all excited for nothing.
As to "differing opinion" and your possesion of one... not to worry. Not from what I have seen of you to date. You spout nothing but the party line so far. Sad.
Do you always talk to yer' ass that way? God! That is disgusting. Sweet cheeks! More importantly, does it answer you?