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  1. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    14 Sep '16 21:291 edit
    http://en.chessbase.com/post/tie-break-system-decides-olympiad

    "Tie Break System Decides Olympiad"
    --Johannes Fischer

    In the open event at the 2016 Chess Olympiad, the USA edged out
    Ukraine for the gold medal on account of an arcane tie-breaking rule.

    US GM Hikaru Nakamura congratulated German GM Matthias Bluebaum
    for winning a game that helped Germany defeat Estonia 2.5 - 1.5 in a match.
    That game meant the difference between the USA winning a gold or a silver medal.

    In fact, Ukraine had defeated Germany, while the USA had not played Germany.
    But, by a twist of the tie-break system, if Germany had drawn Estonia 2-2
    in its match, Ukraine instead of the USA would have won the gold medal.
  2. Account suspended
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    15 Sep '16 06:35
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://en.chessbase.com/post/tie-break-system-decides-olympiad

    "Tie Break System Decides Olympiad"
    --Johannes Fischer

    In the open event at the 2016 Chess Olympiad, the USA edged out
    Ukraine for the gold medal on account of an arcane tie-breaking rule.

    US GM Hikaru Nakamura congratulated German GM Matthias Bluebaum
    for winning a game that helpe ...[text shortened]... y had drawn Estonia 2-2
    in its match, Ukraine instead of the USA would have won the gold medal.
    I think the system is flawed from another perspective, that being that regardless of your origin you can simply join a federation and play for it. For example Naiditch is from Latvia (Riga) played for Germany and now he plays for Azerbaijan??? Wesley So is Filipino and yet he moves to America and that makes him eligible to play for America??? same with the US ladies team, Irina Krush is Russian (now Ukraine), Nazi Paikidze is Georgian, same with Anna Zatonskih (Ukranian) and Katarina Nemcova (Czech) This practice should be made illegal. If you are not born in a country or have no links through paternal or maternal lineage then you should not be eligible to represent that country.
  3. Standard memberDeepThought
    Losing the Thread
    Cosmopolis
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    15 Sep '16 07:26
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://en.chessbase.com/post/tie-break-system-decides-olympiad

    "Tie Break System Decides Olympiad"
    --Johannes Fischer

    In the open event at the 2016 Chess Olympiad, the USA edged out
    Ukraine for the gold medal on account of an arcane tie-breaking rule.

    US GM Hikaru Nakamura congratulated German GM Matthias Bluebaum
    for winning a game that helpe ...[text shortened]... y had drawn Estonia 2-2
    in its match, Ukraine instead of the USA would have won the gold medal.
    I agree that the system is a little mad, but had they not left off the worst team when doing the calculation then because the US beat Andorra 4-0 (who finished 103rd with 10 points) they would have an extra 40 points, enough to leave them just ahead of Ukraine who get an extra 48 points from Jordan, so the knocking the last one off rule didn't actually change the result.
  4. Standard membersh76
    Civis Americanus Sum
    New York
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    15 Sep '16 13:01
    Deciding the result of a major tournament on tie-breakers is almost as dumb as deciding the soccer World Cup on penalty kicks.

    In the event of a tie, they should play more games to break the tie.
  5. Account suspended
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    15 Sep '16 13:07
    Originally posted by sh76
    Deciding the result of a major tournament on tie-breakers is almost as dumb as deciding the soccer World Cup on penalty kicks.

    In the event of a tie, they should play more games to break the tie.
    In football (soccer) you have extra time and only after that period is it decided on penalty kicks. The point is that for players and organisers there has to be a decisive result.
  6. Zugzwang
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    15 Sep '16 21:252 edits
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    I think the system is flawed from another perspective, that being that regardless of your origin you can simply join a federation and play for it. For example Naiditch is from Latvia (Riga) played for Germany and now he plays for Azerbaijan??? Wesley So is Filipino and yet he moves to America and that makes him eligible to play for America??? same ...[text shortened]... through paternal or maternal lineage then you should not be eligible to represent that country.
    American chess has long been dominated by immigrants from eastern Europe (particularly the
    USSR), though there's now a rising generation of US-born players (largely of Asian heritage).
    Three of five players on the US open team may be considered Asian-American (with at
    least one parent of East Asian heritage): Hikaru,Nakamura, Wesley So, and Ray Robson.
    (Nakamura was born in Japan and moved at an early age with his mother to the USA.)
    GM Jeffery Xiong (age 15, ethnic Chinese, FIDE 2641) is the world junior champion.

    "If you are not born in a country or have no links through paternal or maternal lineage
    then you should not be eligible to represent that country."
    --Robbie Carrobie

    So Robbie Carrobie would object to Viktor Korchnoi representing Switzerland after he defected from the USSR?

    By the way, Ukraine almost won the gold medal despite the absence of its highest rated player, Vassily Ivanchuk.
    (What a year for Ukraine in international competitions! Jamala, a Crimean Tatar representing
    Ukraine, won the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest with a performance loathed by Russia's government.)
  7. Account suspended
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    16 Sep '16 08:311 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    American chess has long been dominated by immigrants from eastern Europe (particularly the
    USSR), though there's now a rising generation of US-born players (largely of Asian heritage).
    Three of five players on the US open team may be considered Asian-American (with at
    least one parent of East Asian heritage): Hikaru,Nakamura, Wesley So, and Ray Robson. ...[text shortened]... kraine, won the 2016 Eurovision Song Contest with a performance loathed by Russia's government.)
    Yes I would indeed object to Victor Korchnoi playing for Switzerland, he is not Swiss he is Russian. Imagine if the same thing happened in football, or rugby, it would make a mockery of nationality. Victor should have hoisted the Jolly Roger instead of that fake Swiss flag! The idea that Mohamed Farah is a British athlete is also ludicrous. He's no more British than Spaghetti Bolognese. You are either a son of the soil or you are not.
  8. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    16 Sep '16 18:44
    Originally posted by robbie carrobie
    Yes I would indeed object to Victor Korchnoi playing for Switzerland, he is not Swiss he is Russian. Imagine if the same thing happened in football, or rugby, it would make a mockery of nationality. Victor should have hoisted the Jolly Roger instead of that fake Swiss flag! The idea that Mohamed Farah is a British athlete is also ludicrous. He's no more British than Spaghetti Bolognese. You are either a son of the soil or you are not.
    Blut und Boden, according to Robbie Carrobie.

    "You are either a son of the soil or you are not."
    --Robbie Carrobie

    So would the pro-Jacobite (as I recall) Robbie Carrobie regard Bonnie Prince Charlie
    as no 'true Scotsman' and not 'a son of the soil' because he was born in Italy?
  9. Zugzwang
    Joined
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    16 Sep '16 18:48
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    [b]American chess has long been dominated by immigrants from eastern Europe (particularly the
    USSR), though there's now a rising generation of US-born players (largely of Asian heritage).
    Three of five players on the US open team may be considered Asian-American (with at
    least one parent of East Asian heritage): Hikaru,Nakamura, Wesley So, and Ray Robson. ...[text shortened]... o the USA.)
    GM Jeffery Xiong (age 15, ethnic Chinese, FIDE 2641) is the world junior champion.
    [b]
    http://en.chessbase.com/post/im-li-ruifeng-wins-north-american-junior-open--u20

    The final standings of the 2016 North American Junior Open (won by IM Li Ruifeng) show
    domination by players of Chinese or Indian heritage. That seems to be the future of American chess.
  10. Account suspended
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    16 Sep '16 21:521 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    Blut und Boden, according to Robbie Carrobie.

    "You are either a son of the soil or you are not."
    --Robbie Carrobie

    So would the pro-Jacobite (as I recall) Robbie Carrobie regard Bonnie Prince Charlie
    as no 'true Scotsman' and not 'a son of the soil' because he was born in Italy?
    He claimed Scottish nationality by virtue of his lineage, just as Aussies and Kiwis can play for the Scotland rugby team if the can prove their lineage.😵
  11. Zugzwang
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    17 Sep '16 22:111 edit
    Originally posted by Duchess64
    http://en.chessbase.com/post/im-li-ruifeng-wins-north-american-junior-open--u20

    The final standings of the 2016 North American Junior Open (won by IM Li Ruifeng) show
    domination by players of Chinese or Indian heritage. That seems to be the future of American chess.
    It may take a while (decades) for the non-chess US media to start to acknowledge this new reality in American chess.
    As I already have mentioned (Finnegan took note of my post), in 2015 I read a recently
    published book by an American academic, who does not play chess, which claimed that
    American chess, particularly American junior chess, is dominated by Jewish players, particularly
    from around New York City. There may have been some truth in this claim several decades ago.
    But it's a myth to claim that Jewish players dominate American chess today.

    I also note that this American academic also claimed or implied that Jewish students
    dominate American mathematics and science, though he admitted that Asian students
    were starting to catch up with Jewish students. Starting to catch up, that's all?
    In fact, Asian students already have been outperforming Jewish students in American
    mathematics and science competitions for many years.
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