Please turn on javascript in your browser to play chess.
Debates Forum

Debates Forum

  1. Standard member finnegan
    GENS UNA SUMUS
    08 Apr '12 20:57
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/07/war-drugs-latin-american-leaders?cat=world&type=article

    Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former president of Brazil and chairman of the global commission on drug policy, has said it is time for "an open debate on more humane and efficient drug policies", a view shared by George Shultz, the former US secretary of state, and former president Jimmy Carter.

    Fascinating to see which politicans especially in the USA have the courage to endorse the need for change. (Apart from anything else, there must be a huge potential vote from people who use the stuff!) Prohibition failed with alcohol and it has to fail with drugs. The war on drugs is becoming a crime against humanity.
  2. 08 Apr '12 22:18
    Right now too many people make money off the war on drugs in the US.

    Unless voters actually make it a primary reason to win their vote then the war on drugs will continue no matter how stupid it is.
  3. 08 Apr '12 22:34
    Originally posted by finnegan
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/07/war-drugs-latin-american-leaders?cat=world&type=article

    Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former president of Brazil and chairman of the global commission on drug policy, has said it is time for "an open debate on more humane and efficient drug policies", a view shared by George Shultz, the former US secretary of state, ...[text shortened]... alcohol and it has to fail with drugs. The war on drugs is becoming a crime against humanity.
    Ron Paul anyone???????

    Oh that's right, the crazy old coot has nothing to offer either party, my bad.
  4. 09 Apr '12 00:19
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ron Paul anyone???????

    Oh that's right, the crazy old coot has nothing to offer either party, my bad.
    What? No kudos for crazy Ron to legalize drugs?

    You know, freedom is really a dangerous thing, don't you think? That is why I will always frame a libertarian as a nut case like Ron Paul. What are these people thinking? Next thing you know they will avert wars abroad and restore fiscal sanity. These people must be stopped!!!
  5. 09 Apr '12 00:43
    Originally posted by finnegan
    http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/07/war-drugs-latin-american-leaders?cat=world&type=article

    Fernando Henrique Cardoso, former president of Brazil and chairman of the global commission on drug policy, has said it is time for "an open debate on more humane and efficient drug policies", a view shared by George Shultz, the former US secretary of state, ...[text shortened]... alcohol and it has to fail with drugs. The war on drugs is becoming a crime against humanity.
    I suspect that the intransigence of governments on the issue of a new and more reasonable drug policy is simply due to the general ignorance of the public they have to appear to represent.

    As long as the silent majorities in countries like Brazil, Mexico, and America, continue to make sweeping generalizations about drug use, and continue to support puritanical laws which secure profits for the drug cartels, the War on Drugs (as it is currently conducted and its priorities formulated) will go on.

    I don't recall Fernando Henrique adopting such a progressive stance on drugs when he was President, and this was a pragmatic move, no politician aware of the prevailing mores and prejudices in society would voluntarily swim against the tide of popular opinion. Perhaps once it becomes clearer that there is a strong popular demand for reform, some changes will be made, but that seems unlikely.
  6. 09 Apr '12 01:07
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    I suspect that the intransigence of governments on the issue of a new and more reasonable drug policy is simply due to the general ignorance of the public they have to appear to represent.

    As long as the silent majorities in countries like Brazil, Mexico, and America, continue to make sweeping generalizations about drug use, and continue to support ...[text shortened]... here is a strong popular demand for reform, some changes will be made, but that seems unlikely.
    Had it ever occured to you that the reason drugs remain illegal IS to continue to secure large profits for the cartels?

    Feel free to divert back to the ignorant populace at any moment now.....
  7. 09 Apr '12 01:15
    Originally posted by whodey
    Had it ever occured to you that the reason drugs remain illegal IS to continue to secure large profits for the cartels?

    Feel free to divert back to the ignorant populace at any moment now.....
    Are you suggesting that governments and cartels have secretly colluded? It seems too early in the thread for you to start promoting conspiracy theories, perhaps some discretion regarding your theories is advised whodey, if only for the sake of your own reputation.
  8. 09 Apr '12 01:43 / 2 edits
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Are you suggesting that governments and cartels have secretly colluded? It seems too early in the thread for you to start promoting conspiracy theories, perhaps some discretion regarding your theories is advised whodey, if only for the sake of your own reputation.
    I'm only asking if it ever crossed your mind General. All I know is that there have been many a public official who have died in fighting them, but none have died for not pushing to legalize these substances...........

    If it is true, can you imagine crazy Ron going up against the Fed AND the cartels AND the war industrial complex? I guess you could then label him crazy!!
  9. 09 Apr '12 01:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    I'm only asking if it ever crossed your mind General. All I know is that there have been many a public official who have died in fighting them, but none have died for not pushing to legalize these substances...........

    If it is true, can you imagine crazy Ron going up against the Fed AND the cartels AND the war industrial complex? I guess you could then label him crazy!!
    Perhaps it has crossed my mind at one point, but Occam's razor generally tends to eliminate the more outlandish thoughts which flash through my mind whenever I seriously consider an issue such as the War on Drugs. I certainly wouldn't go around lightly making allegations regarding the existence of vast conspiracies.

    Ron Paul doesn't strike me as being crazy, he seems like an honest politician who is true to his convictions, I simply find the logical conclusion of his ideology to be despicable and utterly reprehensible, I think that unwittingly or not he's an apologist for the uglier aspects of capitalist exploitation. But I don't think he's crazy. Some of his ideas are innovative and although not necessarily well articulated, they seem to convey some degree of genuine concern for the public interest. His remarks on the military industrial complex are commendable.
  10. 09 Apr '12 02:37 / 1 edit
    Originally posted by generalissimo
    Perhaps it has crossed my mind at one point, but Occam's razor generally tends to eliminate the more outlandish thoughts which flash through my mind whenever I seriously consider an issue such as the War on Drugs. I certainly wouldn't go around lightly making allegations regarding the existence of vast conspiracies.

    Ron Paul doesn't strike me as bei n for the public interest. His remarks on the military industrial complex are commendable.
    Outlandish? I never considered it to be outlandish. After all, we all witness the corrupting influence of money under the table in government, most of which we never witness.

    As far as Ron, it amazes me how many people really like the guy. They say he is so honest, which leads me more to think that his naysayers are right. The man is crazy if he thinks he can win being honest.
  11. 09 Apr '12 02:42
    Originally posted by whodey
    Ron Paul anyone???????

    Oh that's right, the crazy old coot has nothing to offer either party, my bad.
    Do you think congress would ever send him a bill that would legalize drugs?
  12. 09 Apr '12 11:47
    Originally posted by PsychoPawn
    Do you think congress would ever send him a bill that would legalize drugs?
    Of course not.
  13. 09 Apr '12 11:56
    Originally posted by whodey
    Of course not.
    Then Ron Paul would essentially not have much effect on the war on drugs.

    At best, he might do what Obama did during the first half of his first term, which is to not go after dispensaries in states that legalize it.
  14. 09 Apr '12 15:21
    More people are incarcerated per capita in the US by far over any other country on Earth. 20% of those incarcerated are for drug offenses.

    The drug rate is insane but so is the total rate of incarcerated prisoners. It is time not only to stop imprisoning people for drus sales and possesion, but to change the rate of non violent imprsionment and certainly reduce the length of those prison terms.

    Our current approach is barbaric and shameful.
  15. 09 Apr '12 19:11
    Originally posted by badmoon
    More people are incarcerated per capita in the US by far over any other country on Earth. 20% of those incarcerated are for drug offenses.

    The drug rate is insane but so is the total rate of incarcerated prisoners. It is time not only to stop imprisoning people for drus sales and possesion, but to change the rate of non violent imprsionment and certainly reduce the length of those prison terms.

    Our current approach is barbaric and shameful.
    Good points. For an interesting book on the subject, I suggest Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness"